I've used stabillos for around thirty years with good results. Lately we have been seeing them leaving marks in the paint, especially dark vehicles. These marks are not stains, but scratches that have to have a glazing put over them to ged rid of. Anybody else seeing this or know of a cure. It just seems the new paints on vehicles scratch if you look at them wrong.
Posted by Michael Latham (Member # 4477) on :
I found this interesting! I am a newbie, full-time 2 1/2 yrs now, but have always had the problem you're having and just thought I was doing something wrong! I will watch to see answers.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
I don't know what it is about the materials used in making them...but the marks do not remove easily. . .god forbid you set anything out in the sun to dry too...because you bake it on then...but you can't remove marks 'til the peice is dry . . .ack.
I can get stabilo 'pencils' all day long from a number of places...
It's those SANFORD PEEL-OFF CHINA markers that are impossible to find anymore. They are my favorite . . .I have one white one and peices of 2 white ones and 2 purple ones left that I'm VERY conservative with ....
Posted by Erik Gastelum (Member # 5341) on :
Do they still make "Sign Pens?" I have not seen these for years. I think they are better than stabillos, but my suppliers have not had them for a lon long time. Anyone know where I can some, they are the shape of those sharpies
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Erik...sign markers like the ones you described are typically used when repainting an existing sign to outline letters before painting over them (only works when the fresh coat will be light or medium colour) The marks you make will 'bleed' thru the fresh coat so you can reletter easily. (BTW: Red El-markos work fine for this process)
You really would'nt wanna layout a new sign with such as marker.
Posted by Mark Smith (Member # 298) on :
[ February 18, 2005, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: Mark Smith ]
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
WOW . . AND Happy New Year, Happy Birthday and all them other holidays too . . .
Even looked for these at Michael's & Office Depot on Montgomery, & Dick Blick . . .with no luck.
Thanx again Mark!! :X :X
Posted by Bob Peach (Member # 2620) on :
Erik, We have been using the ochre pentel sign pens since Monte Jumper showed them to us. We found them at misterart.com No supplier or office supply store around here carries them. George, We have had trouble with white and black stabilos scratching. We like the blue. Have had trouble removing the red. Try the ochre sign pen. It works good on white and there is no residue. Good luck.
Posted by Pierre Tardif (Member # 3229) on :
Regarding the Stabilos The only difference I see is that I realize they are harder and melt slower under the sun.
I use only the dark blue ones as I find the other colors harder to remove.
Sheila you never had any problem painting over those china markers? They are greasy and seems that One Shot does'nt stick to it.
However I still around 1500 of them here all blue(process) I bought 2000 10 years ago for 10¢ each!! Used them when I was doing window splashes onto the windows.
If you have problem finding them the local paper stores here have all colors in stock. I can ship you some.
Life is so good!
Posted by Erik Gastelum (Member # 5341) on :
Bob, I think those are the pens I use to use. Those work great instead of the stabillo's on most applications. Especially on plex, banners & glass. Thx for the info, I need to get some.
------------------------------ The Sign Industry.com Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Hey Pierre . . .(get ready for the suth'ern pronunciation if you do come south: Pay-air )
I never have any problem with paint not 'sticking' ...however...they ARE just layout lines and made with a light touch and very faint . . .actually seems as if the 'oily' nature of the 'crayon' just melts into the paint anyway. . .
In a pinch, the lay-out lines can be removed with just a finger...and sometimes, mabey a tad of nose-grease added... (lol)
Posted by Barry Branscum (Member # 445) on :
12 years ago, fresh outta college, I was hired on as a graphic artist/PHD (post hole digger) in the art dept of a big sign company. First day of work they send me out back to pounce a pattern a pattern onto a humoungous flex face sign. (Ironically this first sign was for a local bank in my home town miles and miles away) It was very placement critical, and I had new guy first day jitters anyway, so I was bein' extra careful on the measurements. My art director had given me a red stabilo to mark my measurements, and I used this liberally on the white flex face. The pattern was pounced, and the sign completed, but guess what wouldn't come off, and guess who got the blame?
I had never even SEEN a stabilo before that day....hardly ever used 'em since.
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
I use ONLY the blue and white Stabillo pencils!Plus I use only faint lines. All others will stain the background.
Yes the new Stabillos are harder, and they don't melt on a hot day. So..... light pressure, faint lines...with blue or white, and you won't have problems!
Posted by Bill Diaz (Member # 2549) on :
I had it happen last week. Only use white and blue. It was white on a black suv. Hmmmmmmmmm!
Posted by Rich Stebbing (Member # 368) on :
Blue,White, & Orange,.... a little toothpaste will remove when stubborn.
Posted by Duncan Wilkie (Member # 132) on :
Hiya Rich, The last time I saw you was at an ISA show in Vegas several years back. Are you going this year? Laurie and I plan on attending, just got to firm up the arrangements.
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
If you try the "Sign Pens" one time ...you'll never look at another Stabillo or China marker.
They are made by Pentel and they are in fact named "Sign Pen" they come in nearly every color you can imagine but the best one we've found are the "Ochre" color. We mark on everything and the marks can be seen on nearly every color but Black and the darkest blues and greens...for that we do resort back to "White" Stabillos and as you well know, white Stabilos never stain.
Nearly any good Office supply will order these for you... if not try the web site Bob Peach mentioned.
Try it you'll like it! Posted by kent moss (Member # 4295) on :
My problem w/stabilo, is the wood cracks, then the center wax marker keeps falling out or breaks off when sharpening.
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
Monte started me on those pens too, but I prefer the felt pens that are meant for overhead projectors. They're simply a non permanent washable black felt pen. I like the fact that they come in a very FINE tip. You will never get a scratch from a felt tip.
I've never required a stabilo after trying a pen.
Posted by mark zilliox (Member # 3873) on :
George , hi, -meet you @ the FKB, monte's on the money on this tip. I used stabillo's & China's for over 25 years. Recently, i was told Staedtler was much better & friendlier to remove-H2O. Ameriban sells them @ $12. a dozen, 1-800-8405, or i will ship you a brand new one ! ( i usually give away the 2" stubs to fellow parishonners-but for a letterhead ! come on' )
does great in humid temps also, alergic to sun as Pieere noted about these type of tools.
Posted by mark zilliox (Member # 3873) on :
my bad...phone # Ameriban, 1-800-654-8405 still on my first cup-o-joe....(ADD's a bummer sometimes ,man) . Aurrvahhh.
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
I had never heard of the 'sign pen' . . .is it pretty much like a dry erase marker??
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
NO... it is a fine felt tip pen made by "Pentel" and is appropriately named "Sign Pen"
I was originally made back in the late 60's early 70's as a layout tool for the sign industry (believe it or not) and is still made today.
Many people use them for drawing on transparencies these days (thats why they are still available.
Locate one and try it...you'll never turn back.
I too have tried the "Staedler" water soluable pens and I like them but I like the "Ochre" color of the sign pens better.
Dry erase is exactly what it says it is "dry erase" Sign Pens and Steadler" are both soluable to water only...and wash off with a slightly damp cloth or chamois..they leave no residue under the paint.Neither stains the background.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
I learn SO much here . . .
Thanx Monte and everyone else too . . . Posted by Tim (Member # 1699) on :
I didnt like the way the stabillos would stain, but staedler makes a similar pencil that I dont get this problem with, they are called omnichrome. I've never seen a pentel signpen up here in canada, but if it werks for Monte, i'd like to give them a try!
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
Thanks Monte, yes, they're called staedler. As for staining, sometimes if you leave them too long on your substrate of choice, they can leave a ghost impression. I just use a window cleaner mixed with rapid remover (spray one on top of the other) and it takes it right off. Nothing like being my own chemist. LOL
Monte, the pentel you sent me once upon a time didn't have a fine tip. That was the one thing I didn't like about it. I'm wondering if I was sent a medium tip...
Posted by Erik Gastelum (Member # 5341) on :
I was trying to tell you Sheila Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
I've been using green Vis-à-Vis wet erase fine point overhead pens by Sanford for several years. I order them a dozen at a time over the internet. Interestingly, they come from a local business who can ship them to me cheaper via the mail than they can hand them over the counter in their storefront.
The green markers wipe off with a damp rag. On some porous substrates, they leave a bit of a ghost which disappears when hit with bleach.
I'm going to try the yellow ochre sign pens as well.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Erik . . .
I got the message...
(LOL) Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
Thanks guys so much. From what some of you are saying I'm gonna go with the fact that Stabillos have changed somewhat recently. We've been using Staedlers for some time and haven't had any problems. I bought a couple of Stabillos locally a few weeks back. We've noticed that the Stabilos don't want to work without extra pressure. I'll be ordering some Staedlers tomorrow.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Shiela,
China markers are pretty easily gotten at hardware stores and come in several colors.
I've never been one to follow the lines too much, but they easily wipe of with a rub of the finger after the paint dries.
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