A potential client enters your establishment. They ask for labels or graphics that are clearly of an objectionabe nature, or in bad taste. What would you do? Obviously you don't want to hinder future "good" work, but, I don't want to do anything I am not proud of.
This post is not about judging others or making charactor asumptions, but how do you nicely turn down work, even if you needed it???
[ February 13, 2005, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I hope you will consider my company for other work in the future, but I will have to pass on this one due to our attempt to limit all our work to the same professional standards that I would be proud to know my company is associated with. You may want to try so & so down the street, or if we could just substitute **** with some astrisks maybe Posted by Bruce Williams (Member # 691) on :
When doubt, don't.
Posted by James Donahue (Member # 3624) on :
Doug, that's an impressive answer.
I've had to deal with this a few times. In fact,once, it was like three in a row. These kind of confrontations can leave me a bit frazzled, and by the end of the week I was wondering if I was really cut out for this.
Then the sewage company wanted thier truck lettered. Praise the Lord! Some good clean work.
I would gently tell them what damage I saw the thing doing, and explain that as one involved in advertising, I have a responsibility to the community regarding what I help promote. It could even help you further clarify the issue in your own mind.
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
I simply sday "I don't do that kind of s***! You want some decent signs, then yer welcome to come back!"
No need to apologize. real customers will understand! If that drives them off, you don't want the rest of their work!
This is MY busniness, and I run it MY way! Customers don't dictate what I do or charge!
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Rick, How would it 'hinder' future work?? The public in general is not gonna picket you because you personally don't wanna indulge a certain off-the-wall request.
People used to ask for art & signs like that around here all the time . . .
It's usually bikers, young kids or one of the brutha's....they want all kinds of 'stuff' . . .beastiality portraits, 8 balls , nekid women, cussin', ...Calvin urinatin' and peein' on everything you can imagine . . .after the word got out that I would'nt do that stuff it seldom happens now . . .
There is a pretty good chunk of things I just won't do even when it would be great money, or even if it could have a lot of 'artistic' value. . .while I can appreciate the artistic value of any kind of art done by others, and ESPECIALLY the techniques involved in acheiving certain affects, subject matter still matters to me personally, when it's comin' off the end of my brush.
I simply just tell customers, "I'm not interested in doin' that particular kind of work, but if you need anything else let me know."
I don't push people or dog-out people over it. To the contrary, I've had a few give ME grief for my stand. Even then, I don't get indignant at them . . .but on several occasions after they persistently questioned me, they wound up buying something that THEY came up with & liked better that was much more appealing all around, simply because I would just ask them things like, "What is the statement or image you want to send?" "How are you going to reply when your younger sibling or your child questions you about this art?" "Are you going to be comfortable when your teenager or spouse drives this vehicle?"
LOL,...how 'bout, "Does your elderly mother's opinion of this sign have any influence in your decision??"
I ask these questions NOT to condemn them or 'make' them change their mind, but to get a dialogue going. If they persistently ask me, I'll tell them why I personally don't do that particular work, but I'm interested in knowing about why they'd like to have it.
The thing is Dudettah, do you know, and are ya 'sold' on your reason why you don't do certain kind's of work?? If so, it ain't no hill for a hill climber to 'splain. Posted by Leonard Sappington (Member # 4562) on :
We have had this come up quite often actually.. since we had an Airbrush T-Shirt shop as well as a sign shop... We would not do it... I don't want to be known as the "ONE" who does the Nasty Stuff... or the Nazi Stuff or anything I would not be proud of... There really is not loads of money doing that stuff anyway... Unless your at Chilicothe Ohio in the middle of and Easy Rider Rodeo... Now that's a whole new ball game...
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
"No thanks, not interested."
No further explanation needed.
You could also just say you're too busy to take on any additional work, or charge such a ridiculous price there's no way they'd go for it, if you have a problem with saying "No."
Posted by Erik Gastelum (Member # 5341) on :
I guess they still hate that "L" word
------------------------------- The Sign Industry Forums Posted by Jon Butterworth (Member # 227) on :
OK youse guys ... where did yer get these new "germlins" from? Kick in the groin, kiss on the cheak ? Love to sign off with that to some my bestest signladies here. The Kiss thingy I mean!
As for the ethics topic ... don't do it if it disturbs you. Not worth any money or time.
Posted by Bruce Williams (Member # 691) on :
There's a lot of ugly junk out there, and if I don't want to look at it, I sure don't want to make more of it -- and look at it all day, for a living.
I don't mean morally-objectionable stuff in particular, or my reputation or 'feeling good' about resisting temptation or anything ethical. Only my own personal prejudices.
For instance, years ago I heard that Disney/Florida's sign shop would not hire men with "facial hair." So, no more Mickey Mouse appliques. In case I had the facts wrong, I still don't trust cartoon animals who aspire to diefication and dress codes.
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
Cartoons, gimmie a break. They are the sickest ....nobody wears any pants and did you ever notice how none of them are married yet there are all these kids running around calling the males "Uncle", yea Disney's one to set standards alright.
As far as doing what I consider objectionable work, if it offends me I wont. I tell them "sorry, I find this offensive" if I lose future good jobs so be it, the person wanting the offensive work and I sure don't see eye to eye anyway so no loss as far as I'm concerned. I'd rather starve than eat s*#t
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Who says sign people don't have standards??? Thanks everybody! My biggrest challenge was to turn down the work without sounding judgmental. I want to run a nice clean studio, and I want to be known for that. Most of you said what I was thinking.
Dude, (Shelia), your insights are great, (as usual)
[ February 14, 2005, 09:37 AM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
Perkins. Great insite into the cartoon thing.
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
George has a perspective that is like no other...
Cool, huh? Posted by Erik Gastelum (Member # 5341) on :
quote:Originally posted by George Perkins: Cartoons, gimmie a break. They are the sickest ....nobody wears any pants and did you ever notice how none of them are married yet there are all these kids running around calling the males "Uncle", yea Disney's one to set standards alright.
Especially when they have their annual drag queen night at disneyland.....good going Mr. Eisner
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Hmmmmm... how does anyone know about drag queen night at disneyland?
George, LOL. Disney has Michael Quackson and Warner Bro's has Racist Rabbit. Posted by Erik Gastelum (Member # 5341) on :
Hey....get off the long eared galoot
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
Last week I walked into my son's tattoo shop he works in, & a customer asked me if I would airbrush a picture of a bare breasted angel on his Harley. I smiled & said, "Can we leave out the nipples?" He laughed & said that they had already told him i would say that, but he had to ask anyway! My son tattooed the same piece on the guy's arm Friday, & HE is going to airbrush the bike for him. I know a lot of you guys would do that, but not me, sorry. Anyway, the angels in the bible are not portrayed as women! Wouldn't you rather have a big strong warrior-man-angel to protect you, rather than a wimpy female one, or a fat naked baby with wings?
I turned down lettering a window for a strip club, too, & you know what? I was blessed with much more work because I said no. To each his own!
Doug~ "Conservative dirtheads?" Shame on you! Lol!
Posted by Bob Stephens (Member # 858) on :
I dont object to much of anything. Show me the money! Im in business first and foremost. To each his own.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Well, it's amazing OP gets a pass on that one....but it is a good sign everything is in good working order again.
Just in time for V.D., eh OP?
Rick - I'd just tell them you don't get involved in that particular venue of signmaking, and explain briefly what you specialize in. Tell them you'd be happy to assist them in any way possible with the type of work you have built your community reputation on.
They have to respect that.
I do object to certain things. Morality is one of the things that separates us from the animals ..it's not all about money to me.
[ February 14, 2005, 03:50 PM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Enuff of the political potshots folks. You all know better. Letterville includes all. Politics, religion, race, and all the rest of that junk have nothing to do with our business here. Knock it off!
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Thanks for finally deleting my reply to Eric Steve. After deleting Eric's "dirthead" comment much earlier... mine was hangin' out there unexplained, so I was loggin' on to assure Bobbie my comment wasn't as "out of left field" as your editing made it look. So, Bobbie, you can feel free to edit your quote of my reply to Eric & we'll just about have this thread all tidied up Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
Don't you worry, Douglas, no offense taken! I find all of you VERY fascinating, differing opinions & all! Isn't that what makes the world so interesting, all of us being different?
The subject of ethics was brought up, & I felt I would state why I do not do certain things, & I am sure some of you laughed or scoffed at my opinion, & that's ok! I know a lot of guys would roll their eyes at the thought that I would never do a "girlie-picture" (as my Grampa would call it), but I put it in, anyway.
Thank you, Doug. I think you are pretty neat.
Please don't stop the thread, guys, I think this is a good one, I like hearing differing opinions. Yours too, Bob. To each his own, you are right!
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I'm actually pretty much of the same attitude as Bob, but thought I'd try to string together some kind of sentence that could work for Rick if needed.
One of the most controversial sign elements i recall making was early in my career & I was not a shop owner then, so I had to do it
It was (cover yer eyes young-uns) a red circle & slash ON TOP OF... (God help me) a bitchin-cool shredding snowboarder graphic.
...how, you ask, did I get past the audacity of this unethical request? I put one on my own board, but the circle/slash went down first & the boarder shredded his rip-torn way out of the confines of such unethical bondage!! (this was years ago BTW)
[ February 14, 2005, 06:08 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
Posted by Alicia B. Jennings (Member # 1272) on :
Objectional,pornograhic or obscene, naw, I wouldn't do it. But I 've seen these tiny pinstipe add-ons, in which there are these little stick people in a lot of "positions', I have been asked to do some of these once before, I did it at the time, but I really didn't feel good about myself later on.
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
I think we have quite the gamut of responses and belief value systems at work here. Personally, I value my beliefs and believe in my values.
I have turned down work in the past and I have also done jobs that I wish that I hadn't. I believe it is the jobs that I wish i hadn't that makes me turn down the work that I do.
This is certainly a personal issue with yourselves. I am not going to pass judgement on who does what. It boils down to the fact that only you have to look yourself in the eye every morning... or afternoon for some of you... Hahahahahahahahahaha!
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
I think I'm glad I missed this post turning political.
Rick, just about everyone has something they won't do. While the decals you're talking about wouldn't bother me, if it bothers you, walk away.
The only person you have to answer to everyday is you.
Posted by John Deaton III (Member # 925) on :
IVe had people come in and want the awfulest stuff on their windshields. Whewwww! IM not stuck on a morality issue or nothing, but some of the stuff they wanted was beyond me. Thats one of the reasons I dont do em anymore. IF I had to make my living doing windshield stickers like that, Id rather be doing something else. Rick, if it bothers you, which it sounds like it did, dont fool with it. IF the customer doesnt understand, thats their problem. They'll be others to take their place. Stick with your feelings on this.
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
I appreciate Alicia's comments that acknowledge she did something and allowed herself to recognize her feelings about it afterwards and then not do it again. She didn't allow the past to dictate her present. We all make mistakes in our judgement and have opportunity to grow. I like that. Imagine being stuck in an unchangeable mold?
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
I always need work, but I think I would turn down something that bugged me, or offended potential clientelle. It's bad enuff being known as the Coro Queen among my peers. I don't want to be known as the sign company that produces questionable content, especially racist or satanic things. I would make signs for a strip club though, they probably have ready cash and no committees like churches do. Love....Jill
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Mmmmmmmmm.....I have to believe church committees would quickly agree to nix large pink nipples from their exterior signs. The introduction of "churches" in relation to "strip clubs" could get this topic turning ugly again...I think.
Don't you like my new diplomatic, "Todd Lite" approach?
Please! Somebody! Tell me you're proud of me! Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
I think Jill was just makin' a joke about 'committees', all of which are a bummer to all contractors they contact.
What I really wanna say is..... MAY'AH STEVE!?!?! I need Erik's graemlins available over here on the left to continue to post in a creative and expressive way . . . . Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
he says he's a "sharing guy"... just right click, choose properties, highlight & copy the URL, & add with our EZ UBB image tags Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
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