Well to start this conversation. I'd like to ask.. How does someone move away from Old Addictions!
To the Newbies that want to learn how Illustrations/Lettering was done years ago...KOOL! We are all out here to pass the "Buck" onto you so the Industry will Live... But still some of us would like to sit behind the desk and Design Only.
From the meager Pencil,to Brush to Mouse....Wow the "Times they are Changing!"
But as an Old Dog living within the year of 2005 and have studied years ago how to put Pencil to Paper first and remember "Your Imagination"!!!
Knowing that you were going to get dirty because of all the materials involved.
Over the years I have become lazy from the pencil to the Brush and look forward to the Mouse.
But to move on from the Past, I have to let go of things I was taught..(Not Everything!), but only the small kits of Paint/Brushes (Not for Sale!)
Wishing times would stay the same but it does not! But looking forward to the "Future of Graphics"
You never know! You may see my 15 Minutes of Fame.........
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Wow Stephen . . .I just mentioned to Jill that I hope I don't quit hand-lettering!!
Since I got this plotter I'm hardly painting at all!! I'm concerned!!
When I was ordering vinyl lettering from Gregory I hand lettered more because I'd actually made more money on the hand-work, than ordering and marking up cut vinyl. Now that the plotter is in house, I'm using the same pricing method as Gregory with my mark-up so I'm actually making more money because I'm turning out more work faster... but . . . .
I'm really worried about sellin' my soul to the plotter.
I think the thing I need to do is paint more custom panels and stuff . . .or like RT does and at least super-customize the vinyl jobs.
I like to think that I choose type-styles and do creative layouts in the media of vinyl...but there's nothing like the painting, whether lettering or doing pictorials that relaxes you and gives you thinking time and boosts creativity levels. It's like a drug.
I notice that the days have become: Fooling with the plotter, weeding and masking, apply & invoice, DONE. NEXT.
I'm actually already bored with this process . . . Everything is happening so fast. TOO fast, if that makes any sense.
I don't have the time for 'meditating' and pondering things. I also don't 'get into' the sign as much. Even if I manipulate unique fonts and try to make vinyl lettering look more relaxed or unique. . .the sign still does not have the same heart and soul and creativity behind it as a hand painted one.
Before I got the plotter I was already gettin' bored and frustrated with the 'bread & butter' signs of this trade and tryin' to think of ways that I could 'cut loose' with the art-work and do more unique things.
I'm becoming aware that for me, a plotter or a computer is not going to provide that either, although it's a 'fun' diversion . . .the only real plus I can think of is not having to wait for paint to dry . . . .or a UPS delivery.. But those things are not even a big deal all the time. . . .
Anyway . . .I like the smell of paint. I don't mind that I get it in my nails. I don't care if I get stuff on my clothes. I like the way I can change something with the addition of a hint of colour . . . I prefer the way a loaded brush feels in my hand to that of a 'loaded' plotter or a . . .mouse. When hand lettering or painting, if I happen to flinch the wrong way, it never entirely erases anything.
I guess I'm saying, the brush FEELS natural and the computer, mouse ...plotter don't yet...but I'm getting really used to them and I hope the brush will still always feel natural no matter what other tools I learn to use. Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Sheila, get a tablet.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Don,
I shy away from pills . . .
(lol)
ok. I'm sure you must be talkin' about a 'wacom tablet' and I have no idea what that is . . .but it does sound American Indianish . . . .so it HAS to be ok.
[ February 12, 2005, 05:51 PM: Message edited by: Sheila Ferrell ]
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
No, Don, she needs to take a pill...
LOL!
Posted by William Holohan (Member # 2514) on :
Sheila, The owner of the last company I business coached came up in the business with a quill in one hand and an airbrush in the other. The majority of his work is now cut on the plotter. He uses his brushes on an almost daily basis still. He brings the flat vinyl look to life with these skills and tools. After you have applied the vinyl, step back and figure out where a spritz and a stroke would liven up the sign. Just imagine that you have painted the letters and figure out "what next" And do charge for it in your quote. Flat vinyl sign...One price... Paint enhanced vinyl sign...Higher price... Vinyl allows you to save the time of tracing, sketching, pouncing or whatever you do to get the basic lettering done... His philosophy is that he can turn out a killer sign in less time and still get top dollar.
The mix may never meet the demands of a paint purest, but it can get the job done well and at both a profit and leave you with the sense of not having given up completely to the Icky Sticky monster.
Posted by jack wills (Member # 521) on :
This is why I have chosen to move on to fine art. Although I still keep the computer and the plotter warmed up I still feel at my best when doing fine art. I do use most of my sign painting tools on art projects because of the "Feel" of all that I know. Even from the old Bulletin, painting days are a great help in doing my own style of art. The vinyl stuff,HDU,Sheet metal, all make me money but the art makes me fun.
CrazyJack "When you know all of nothing,you will know everything"
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Some pretty cool effects can be easily done on vinyl, too. Cut first, then airbrush before weeding. Whole lot faster than masking. All the overspray is weeded away.
Posted by Jon Butterworth (Member # 227) on :
Imagine doing this in vinyl!
The original signage consisted of an 8x8 on each face. My daughter & I painted this whole lot in under 3 days using 12 litres of acrylic paint (4 gallons?) and walked away with over $3000
No Si ... we didn't use masking tape! We cut the lines using 4" brush cutters
Ok. I admit to using "modern" technology! I did scan the Rexel logo and produced a 1/10th scale layout for each face. But I marked it up by hand. Is this a lost art?
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
" . . . But I marked it up by hand. Is this a lost art?"
lol Jon.
Mr. Holohan, you are exactly right about customizing the vinyl. As I said, I got a real 'vision' of this from RT when he showed me his portfilio . . .almost all of his vinyl work is customized in some way as you described, and it SO gives it that hand-look. His work is incredible and is simply something that you don't see coming out of a lot of the *'quicky-sticky' joints . . .
How could I have come so far and still have such an long way to go?? . . . That 'discovery' zone is what keeps me goin' . . .
Don AND BRUCE (lol) I'm still gonna study up on what a wacom tablet is . . .
*DISCLAIMER: I'm, in no way, opposed to 'quicky-sticky shops nor am I a 'paint-only elitist'. It takes all kinds because SOME'S can do the stuff SOME don't wanna do or SOME can't do . . .it's a really happy services exchange system . . .;D
Posted by William Holohan (Member # 2514) on :
To all: I hope I didn't offend with my "Paint Purists" remark. In no way was it meant to be offensive. Two meets have blown my socks off with the talents of those who chose to be "brush only" sign men/women. It is the practicalities of the business that I consider first and foremost. Vinyl is here to stay. If it can be used in such a way as to increase the profit potential and also deliver a sign that says "Done by a fine sign artist" then good for you and your client.
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
I fell in love with hand lettering. Having letters flow off the end of a brush is a rush computers just can't give. I do a little computer generated work like a truck job I did last week. It had some of the hammered silver leaf and four colors of vinyl on it. Yea, it looked really nice and there was a little gratification there, only because nobody around here does anything like that, but I would have gotten a bigger rush if I had hand lettered a 4x8 construction sign loaded with 3" Helvetica. Nothing beats the feeling of doing a nice bouncy script right off the brush. Unfortunately, I just don't get a chance to do that often enough. I also haven't put the paint away either. Rather, it's the plotter that is getting used less and less these days. For the stuff I do, vinyl is usually NOT faster, it's certainly more expensive material wise and the folks willing to pay a decent price are few and far between. Thank goodness I learned to pinstripe years ago is all I have to say Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
Good to see you on here Steve. I know the feeling of leaving the Brush behind.
But to tell the truth, I don't miss the constant headaches I got, every single time I painted with 1 shot, even today when the staff paints a panel with 1 shot I still get a headache, and it's severe. I can't tell you what its like going home with a clear head.
Does anyone else who still paints get these "Paint Headaches?"
Posted by Mikes Mischeif (Member # 1744) on :
Then there was this caveman who was mad because some guy invented a wheel...and he was going to miss walking.
Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on :
...Hand painting still RULES!!! Like George says, there is nothing as swell as watching paint come off of the end of a brush. It's as primally soothing as watching a candle flame.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Jon,
Have you seen a Semi Trailer digital "wrap" lately? Imagine doing that in paint?! Hehehehehe.
There's a place for all manufacturing processes don't cha think? Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
forget semi-trailers... paint this:
[ February 14, 2005, 10:59 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Priceless!
Posted by Erik Gastelum (Member # 5341) on :
Hmmmm.....Like we need other forums, huh?
-------------------------------- The Sign Industry.com --------------------------------
[ February 14, 2005, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: Erik Gastelum ]
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
HAHAHAHA
...good one Eric!
just for laughs I changed the link to image you folks got from Sign Builder Illustrated, instead of linking to your site, but you busted me good on that remark. (pretty sharp for a... nahhhh, better not go there)
Posted by Erik Gastelum (Member # 5341) on :
np Doug, but you had to know that was coming Your more than welcome to link up, i'm a sharing guy
Posted by Jon Butterworth (Member # 227) on :
Doug .. I can, and I would paint that banner! Especially for the price they would have paid for the digital print.
Install is THEIR headache Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I believe you "can & would" Jon... but you have done water towers right?
...'cause this is no banner, this is the world's tallest window graphic. 3000 man-hours to install. (story HERE )
...even though you "can & would", by the time you finished it, someone else probably would have made a taller one. Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
That's awesome, but I would'nt want to drop my sqeegee. I think I'd s$%# myself if I had to do that.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
It's really amazing what can actually be done . . .I guess ya would'nt have to worry about an occasional air bubble or wrinkle . . .but you can (almost) see it from my house...LOL
Also, on that job..you take up a CASE of squeegees . . .and a 'bowler hat' . . . Posted by Stephen Deveau (Member # 1305) on :
AMAZING..To think that we may try to improve our talents to accomidate the times and others say don't. No Offence! But letting Old DOGS to design the product and allow others to produce or manufacture it for us is not a wrong approach. I have had my share of Paint and Vapours!
Now it is more to be in line with designing only and watching the creative talents of manufacturing to produce the final outcome. Thats what Bosses are all About!
![[I Don t Know]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
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But those things are not even a big deal all the time. . . .![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)
Priceless!
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. . .lol, jus' kiddin'....![[Razz]](tongue.gif)