I'm going to stripe a Harley tank which is then going to be shot with several coats of automotive clear. What kind of mixing ratio do others use w/1-shot paint and the 4007 hardener?
Has anyone tried brushing Frog Juice over the 1-shot before hitting it with an automotive clear?
Posted by Bill Preston (Member # 1314) on :
Can't really tell you a ratio Thom, that's Joey Maddens area.
Have used FJ as a first coat on scuffed vinyl prior to airbrushing fades with Createx Auto Air and followed with another coat or two of FJ, heat setting each coat.
Can't see though, why you would want to use Frog Juice over your striping when you are going to use an automotive clear anyway. I don't know if one can even add hardener to FJ, or again why one would want to. Just think FJ in between is going to give an Excedrin headache.
FWIW.
bill preston
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Thom,
I've tried brushing the One Shot UV Clear over pinstripes prior to clearing it, but found that the buildup will still leave a "bump" even after 4 coats of clear.
Joey'll probably suggest using HOK insted of One Shot, and I'll agree with him whole heartedly. If you're using a urethane clear coat later, stripe it with HOK...and worry less about lifting.
Rapid
Posted by thom miller (Member # 1845) on :
The idea for sealing the paint with Frog juice came from their spec sheet. It is supposed to act as a buffer between the two paints. I agree with you Ray, I was concerned about the build-up.
HOK is looking like the safer bet.
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
HoK is by far the safer bet but I've also had good results using 1-Shot with and without #4007. If ya gonna do it in HoK, still use its catalyst as it assures perfect dry time without the HoK moving during the spraying of the clearcoat.
The main reason using HoK is to lesson the amount of time beore getting cleared and with 1-Shot you still gotta wait days or problems m,ay arise as usual Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
thom, I'd be wary of using the Frog Juice, I've had bad results with that crap, I've tried it and pitched it.
The key to clearing over One Shot is in the application. You HAVE to mist on the first two or three coats , then work up to a gloss......without ever getting it heavy/hot enough to burn down to the base. HOK can also have problems if you are too heavy handed with your application. It doesn't wrinkle up like O.S. rather it tends to sag or "move" as Joey pointed out. I never waited any specific length of time before clearing O.S. I've done it as soon as fifteen minutes after striping. The thing you have to remember about O.S. is it's gonna leave a very noticible ridge where the striping is. A build up much like when you clear over a decal. If you don't mind that , fine, but if you are going for a slick, marble like finish with no ridges you would be much better off using HOK, the extra cost involved will be offset by the time you save wet sanding.
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
I'd go HOK if you can. If you have to use One Shot, go with 10% hardner, the maximum One Shot says to use. I'd give it a week to dry to play it extra safe.
I used hardner in One Shot thinned for airbrushing on a race car. One fender was done 2 days before the second. The clear lifted on the second fender but not the first. They were cleared 2 days after the second fender was painted.
Posted by Alphonse Dente (Member # 4993) on :
I do a lot of work for an area custom painter, and 3-4 times a month, I stripe with 1Shot, which will later be cleared with automotive urethanes. I use more like 15-20% 4007 hardener, and limited amounters of high-temp reducer (which sshould really be considered a flow enhancer, rather than a "thinner") and have done so for probably 5 years now. My experience has been that if given 24 hours to cure, and the first couple of coats of clear are blown on dry, we have never had any problems, lifting or otherwise. Not once.
I have used the HOK,(and in all fairness, also never had a problem) and on some occasions still do, (like when they have to clear withen an hour or two.), but still prefer the 1Shot, probably because it's what I'm comfortable with.
That's my take on it!
As far as the frog juice, I don't think it would offer any benefit..and why introduce yet another factor into the equasion?
-Al
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
Do not try to sandwich that uncatalyzed stuff in the middle,like the others have already told you. I am of the argument to not do it at all,your dry spray or whoever's dry spray may not be the same as someone elses dry spray,and thats where problems come in.
Posted by thom miller (Member # 1845) on :
I just talked to a local body shop which does alot of repaints for the Harley dealer near us. They strongly recommend HOK over 1-shot. They have had results with 1-shot similar to what Dave is saying, but never with the HOK. So overall, it seems the safest way is HOK.
Thanks to all who responded!
Posted by Alphonse Dente (Member # 4993) on :
Probably is safer, using urethane with urethane..I was just responding from personal experience.
How's THIS for a curve ball to throw at your local body shop....Harley Davidson's factory striping is actually done with screen printing inks!
just when you thought it was safe to go back in the water!
-Al
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Alphonse, the screen printing ink you are referring to is either enamel or lacquer inks and yes, these inks are made for hard surfaces. The only real different is that these inks are not brushed on but rolled on and Harley Davidsons staff uses a template as well.
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
The reason I never go over 10% hardner in One Shot is because that is what the chemist at One Shot told me to do to be safe. He said you risk shocking the paint with more.
Posted by Alphonse Dente (Member # 4993) on :
Yes Joey, they are basiccally rolled on. (no wonder it's such a drag making that top-stripe corner around the back corners of the tour pack bags!!!)
In fact not only is it screen ink, its applied robotically now!
(wish you could see me shaking my head in disbelief...)
-Al
Posted by Jim & Chris hetzler (Member # 1709) on :
I know everyone has their own thing and we have all tried just about everything to get past this delima with striping and clear coat. One thing for sure even John Kosmoski taught us in his class is that you always start with a couple of light coats of clear wait the recommended time and then start to add the wet coats. There is even a real good article in the Pinstriping Masters book. 1Shot in my experiance is yet another animal and still yet to be tamed for clear. The hardner in 1Shot is pretty much straight Isocyanates. This added chemical must have a minimum of 60 degrees to activate...the warmer the better. I have had great success by adding a heat lamp over the work and leaving ther over night. Let everything cool to room temp and clear. This is the same with your clears too, if applied in a cool shop the hardner will not fully activate and sit there only to attack your fine art work. Good Luck.
Hetz
[ February 03, 2005, 08:31 PM: Message edited by: Jim & Chris hetzler ]
Posted by mark zilliox (Member # 3873) on :
Thom- all the tips are good. If we are asked to do 1-shot work on a pre-sanded bike tank or whatever,and know a body shop is going to clear over it...aka "bury it". We use the reducer compatable or in other words the same brand ( say PPG for instance )to "cut" the 1-shot with. Also, we paint a test spot on a soda can @ the same time to let the painter try to instigate a reaction ! 99% of the time it's no problem, but a day to "air" out solvents prior to clearing is our recommendation.
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