For the past Month I have been testing a chat program called PalTalk. It's been around for years, but we are very impressed with how far this program has come. We see all sorts of opportunities for Letterville users who choose to install and use this program.
So what is PalTalk? Here’s their own description.. PalTalk is the next generation instant messenger integrating type, voice, video and file sharing into one neat package. Fast download and ease of use makes PalTalk the #1choice for internet savvy users. If you have ever used Yahoo Messenger or MSM, you have already played with some of the features Paltalk offers.
Over the past week, we have been experimenting with a Letterville chat room we have created in PalTalk. Most users of our faithful, old mirc channel report PalTalk is easy to download, install and use. You can type to each other and share your files and photos, but there is also the ability to use voice and/or video. We've already planned an online interview on pricing your work and determining an hourly rate for later this week. Our online guest will be Mark Smith, the developer of Estimate Software. Start writing down your questions and watch this forum for more details.
Before going any further, we need to teach you how to download and install PalTalk. You'll also have to register a nickname and learn where to find the Letterville Room. Those who want to try the voice feature need to purchase a microphone. We suggest an inexpensive headphone with a mic. A headphone allows you to hear better without disturbing the rest of your family. Let's get started.
You'll find the PatTalk website at www.paltalk.com The first thing we need to do is download the program.
Downloading
Click on the 'Download All New Paltalk Messenger 7' button. You can't miss it! This will take you to the actual Download page. Select a place on your computer to save the file, and then click "Save". Download time is only a few seconds on a high speed connection and a couple of minutes on a 56K connection.
Depending on your Web browser's settings, you may see:
A security warning window. Click "Yes" to install Paltalk.
A file download window. Click "Save" to download Paltalk.
Installation
Once the download is complete, double click on the pal_install.exe icon or file that appears in the folder in which you saved the file. This will initiate the Paltalk installation. After installation is complete, Paltalk should launch automatically. If everything has gone smoothly, it's now time to Register as a new PalTalk user. Please read the following closely.;
In PalTalk, you are allowed a number of various nicknames. I have one I use for just goofing around, and another I use in the Letterville Chat. We'd like you all to use the same name you use on the BullBoard in the Letterville Chat room. Example? I am steve_shortreed. Barb is barb_shortreed Our real first and last names.
Why real names you ask? There are a couple reasons. The first is confusion. It is vital that we all know exactly who each other are. My memory isn't as good as it once was, and I have a hard time with nicknames. For our own security, I want to know who I am talking with at all times.
The second reason is really much like the first. Letterville is not a secret society. We are all fanatical about what we do and proud of it. Many of us are also small business people. We're here to have fun, as well as to learn. There is simply no need to hide behind a nickname. Register a second or third nick for use in other, less community oriented, rooms.
During the registration process, you will be required to choose a password and create a secret question and answer. You will now be asked if you wish to subscribe to additional services or third party advertising. This is not unusual today. Everyone is looking for ways to increase revenue and a voluntary mail list is one of the most popular. Many consider it spam. Answer no if you don't want any of this stuff!
So you're registered and looking for the Letterville Chat Room. Where the heck is it?
PalTalk consists of 2 windows. Your main control window, and a room window. In the free version of PalTalk, you may see a popup window. Use any popular popup ad killer to eliminate these if you desire. We're interested in the main PT window at this point.
Look for a group of 4 tab selections called Home Groups Pals Favorites. You want to click on the Groups Tab, scroll down the list to the Business & Finance section. Click on it to open and look for Letterville. Double click on that link to join the room. That’s all there is to it!
At the present time, we have a free room. We have to have the room open in order for you to use it. Rather than sit waiting all day, we are opening the room at specific times. Right now, the room will be open 2-4 pm EST every afternoon and evenings from 8pm until midnight. Drop by, save the room as a Favorite, and start building your own Pal List of other Letterheads. Barb and/or I will be there to chat with.
Now for your questions! We know you have all sorts of things you want to know about the PT program and our thoughts about the value of PT for Letterville. Here's what we are going to do.
In the past month, I've had the pleasure of meeting some new friends here in PalTalk. One is a gal named Sassy, also known as Flying with Wings. Sassy has been around chat programs for over 10 years. She started with Internet Relay Chat, or IRC as we call it. She has 5 years experience as a former PalTalk Support Person. Sassy has helped me with numerous questions of my own. If she don't know the answer, she'll find someone who does.
Now it's your turn. Sassy will be with us in the PT Letterville Chat Room tonight to answer your questions and lead you step by step thru setup and other features of PalTalk. Write out your questions and join us from 10pm - Midnight EST.
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
My wife has been using it for a couple of years, with video, sound and chat, it's a great communication tool.
Posted by Jon Aston (Member # 1725) on :
Wow!
I just downloaded, signed up...and was speaking with Barb and "chatting" with Karen Sartain in less than 5 minutes. Looks like it is going to be great fun and a great tool.
Steve and Barb rock!
Posted by TransLab (Member # 470) on :
Just call me a Ludite.
I'd rather talk to my wife, and type on my 'puter... Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
i need to go buy a mic...i know i used to have one years ago but its long gone.
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Not a problem Mike. The "Green Button" mirc chat is still an option. Just because we have the audio option, dosen't mean it will always be used or available.
I see it as a great tool for online interviews, Monthly Resident Draws and other special events. We're even considering a weekly Karaoke Night. It's a hoot!
In reality, I have found that most users still prefer to use type. When used improperly, the voice thing can become annoying. Try it for yourself!
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
You are a Ludite.
What is that anyway?? It ain't in my little pocket dictionary. Is that a person . . . . who dabbles in the ludicrous? Aw, wait, that's me . . . I bet a ludite is a Star Trek clan member. . .from the planet of lude . . .lewd??!! Did you mean lewdite??
(clamps hand over mouth) Stop this Sheila . .yer Off topic! Posted by Dale Manor (Member # 4858) on :
A bit of a problem for Mac users....
MAC OSX is not supported......so I won't see you there!
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
is it available for Macs yet?
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
BTW . . yes I tried PALTALK.
It's ok.
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
I think it's OK too. A bit hard to navigate for a nerd like me, but you can add "Letterville" as a favorite group so that it's easier to find. Not keen on the pop-ups but I just X them. It's nice to hear the different accents, but I prefer to type. Love....Jill
Posted by TransLab (Member # 470) on :
Interesting that the word 'Sabotage' stems from this era.
The name derives from the early industrial age, when powered looms could be damaged by the wooden shoes (known in French as sabots) of the displaced weavers (proto-saboteurs) being thrown into the machinery. Literally it means, "clattering in sabots".
[ January 24, 2005, 03:52 PM: Message edited by: TransLab ]
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Steve seens to have avoided a small detail, that if you use a mac, you are not welcome.
Unless you would like to spend a pile of money on a windows emulater that will in addition to slowing your bank account down, will slow your mac down to a crawl.
BTW, Barb did make an effort to find a free pc emulater, but turned out that all the links that claimed 'free' in their title were hundreds of dollars when you went to download.
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Thats just not true Don. You neglected to mention that Barb has spent hours looking into your problem and offering various solutions. I've never used a Mac, but I'm well aware the users are loyal.
I'm not sure what you want us to do here. 99% of our users are using pcs. Should we resist taking advantage of tools we feel can benefit so many because a few use Macs? That don't seem fair either. What if we toss this opportunity out the window and you decide to take a year off again?
It's not a question about being welcome. You and I have known each other for years. After all we have been through together, I am a tad miffed that you would even suggest such a thing.
We're working behind the scenes to insure nobody gets left behind, but at some point there comes a time when each of us is forced to pay to play. We're still looking for a free program just for you.
A couple possible solutions.
Why not lower the price on your CD set so more can afford it? One sale will more than cover the software you need.
I'll bet there are all sorts of used pcs available. With new systems going for as little as $500, there should be something available for less than the emulator program. Just a thought
[ January 24, 2005, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Just one thing in reply. Try to make that the last time in public forum that you bring up the year I took off. OK? I had very good reason. And last tuesday you witnessed a perfect example of the same instigator trying his best to get somebody else to scoot. You approve of that behavior, and even reward it, so please stop pointing it back at me.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
Why not keep using irc too?
Two tools to use instead of one that some are having trouble with. People are having challanges with getting that software to work.
Let the users vote with thier feet. If palchat is superior then all will move there. If Irc is supurior then people will stay. If both are offering tools that users like then use both.. YES????
Posted by Del Badry (Member # 114) on :
i like the look and feel of paltalk, but on my work terminal, it really slowed stuff down... i'd probably stick with irc for my use, but could see the benefit of it for stuff.. and other people..
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
I agree Curtis. We have no intention of giving up on the current room. It's been a great tool for allowing people to exchange info and get comfy with each other. Isn't it cool how you finally get to meet your chat pals live and the ice is already broken?
The only thing that bothers me is the lack of participation in our current chat. Compare the number of BB users to chat users. Some of that is our fault. We should have more structured things going on.
I'm a slow typer. I peck away with 2 fingers and need to look at the keyboard while typing. Quite often questions will scroll by that I miss. There are times users think I am ignoring them when the truth is I never saw the question. The voice feature is going to make the Monthly Resident Draw much more fun for me.
Del...unless you are trying to use a webcam, PalTalk should not slow down your system. Dave Grundy is on a laptop in Mexico and is only able to get a 24k connection at times. Ask Sassy about that tonight. She'll show you sep by step how to set up PT for maximum performance on your machine.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
For those with a dial-up internet connection, don't feel that it will be a detriment(sp?).
I downloaded and started using PalTalk about a week ago. I am currently on a very unreliable dial-up here in Mexico. I am getting connections that vary from 7.4k to 31.6k from one day to the next. Typing in Paltalk will work even at 7.4k and I don't think anyone here has connections that low. Voice works just fine at anything over 16.8k
I know that the info on PalTalk says 28.8 minimum, but it isn't so.
I've been an IRC user for longer than most people here and still love it but I can see the benefits of PalTalk. File transfers are quicker than DCC in IRC. Voice and video capability is a definite advantage of course
As far as ease of downloading, installing and usig the program is concerned. I think most will find it a lot more user friendly than IRC. I can remember the countless hours and hours that many of us have spent explaining IRC to newcomers, some of whom just ended up giving up on the program. PalTalk hasn't presented any of the frustrations for folks who have tried it so far.
I hope more folks will give it a try.
Posted by Del Badry (Member # 114) on :
steve, my problem wasnt with internet conn. it just seemed to really bog down my terminal, when on.. thats all, no biggie
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
Dont cause trouble Badry
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
I tried Paltalk last night and found it interesting. It is nice to hear voices instead of just reading words, but yet you can still type if you wish to. I can see this tool very usefull in talking with other heads to discuss, business, solve problems, or even demonstrate techniques in continuing with the sharing of information about our craft.
It may not be for all, heck it may just be resisting to change for some. But it does hold many benefits that IRC just cannot offer.
For some like myself I type horroribly and loath typing so much I will cut short thoughts or not even bother with some. Also talking instead of typing gives you full emotion and proper intent of the message which in turn will eleiminate many misconceptions of what is really being said.
That happens so much in the typed world as you have witnessed on this BB.
So in closing if you can try it, why not?
The worst thing that really can happen is there will be a split letterville, I can't see how that can really be positive at all.
[ January 25, 2005, 08:49 AM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
Posted by Joe Cieslowski (Member # 2429) on :
Here's the part I don't get......If I'm on Mirc typing only and someone else is in the room talking only......I can't her them unless I'm on chatpal with my volume on.....Do I have that right?????? Soooooooo, In order to participate fully I have to be on Chatpal.....
I'm sure I have something wrong here.....???
Joe, Makin Chips and Havin Fun!
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
I don't feel so alone now. Mac users aren't the only group left out of the party.
Posted by Bill Modzel (Member # 22) on :
Any of you mac users set up with iChat at this time? I'm surprised we can't make this work with the palchat thing. I got an ISight for Christmas too, pretty cool, too bad were all ugly. Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
There nutin wrong with irc... We will still be there
Posted by Mark Smith (Member # 298) on :
Steve, I just tried to find the Letterville room (2:15 eastern) and no luck. When will it be around?
Posted by Catalin Dretcanu (Member # 4136) on :
I love PT! Finally I will be able to talk all of you and see you. I just wait to start talking with not even type.
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Sorry we were late Mark. I could have saved some money on calling you.
At this time we are using a PalTalk free room. Instead of sitting in front of the computor all day we are opening the room at specific times. We were late today, but Barb is in the room from 2-4pm EST each afternoon. It reopens at 8pm - 12 Midnight. These times are just temporary and are very flexible.
Curtis is right about the current chat room. There is nothing wrong with it. When I started it 10 years ago, it was state of the art. Then again, B&W TV was pretty cool in it's time. Anyone want to go back?
There will always be an IRC network in place. Some love it! Many others find the commands, chanserv, nickserv and other details confusing. Our ops do a wonderful job of helping new users, but many end up leaving frustarted.
In an attempt to make things easier, we created the Green Button chat. This is a java based program, that makes irc easier to drive. Think of it as an automatic transmission on a vehicle. Easier to use, but the numbers using our current chat are disappointing.
It's 2005. Hardware and software have come a long way in the last 10 years. I'm old enough and honest enough to admit I have forgotten ass the DOS stuff and at least 50% of the mirc commands I once knew. You may be different, but I want things as simple and stress free as possible. There is too much on my plate to mess with learning all the details of IRC.
A handful of people have already made of their minds about PalTalk. Without even trying it, they have decided to stay with their trusted b&w TVs. That's not a problem. We went through a far bigger revolt many years back when we moved to our current Discussion Board.
I've been using PalTalk on a daily basis for over a month now. It has a wonderful 24/7 support team available to its users. In addition to type and file transfer, it offers live video and/or voice. We see nothing but opportunities to better educate and share. That's what Letterville is all about!
During my time on PalTalk, I have fortunate to meet a lady that is a former PalTalk Support worker. For 5 years, she answered thousands of questions for thousands of new PalTalk users. I'm proud to say she is now available to Letterville users.
Some of you have already met her. Her nick is Flying On Wings, but most of us call her Sassy. She was in the PT Letterville Room answering questions last week and again last night. She'll be back again this Wednesday at 9:30pm.
I invite you all to join us Wednesday nite with an open mind. Sassy will address all your questions and issues. In addition, she will once more lead you thru all the setup options to get you up and running. We'll also have a handout available on how to setup your sound.
One last comment. We've heard and read all sorts of comments on PalTalk. Some say it uses to many resources, it crashes your computor, it won't work on dial-up. For the past few days Dave Grundy has been playing with PalTalk from his vacation villa in Mexico. He is on a laptop and is lucky to get a 16K connection. His sound is excellant.
There are many times we assume things. Blue screen or crashing issues may be caused by memory or other probs. Example. I can't get my BB counter image to show. All of you can see it but I can't. I've blamed ZoneAlarm, the router, java, Norton Anti Virus and Barb for the problem. In fact I'm sure it is Barb. There's no way it's my computor! It works fine with everything else! I don't care if all of you can see the counter fine. It's Barb. She's involved in a secret plot with MS BB Central to drive me nuts. Counters should be banned!
Get the idea? Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
BB counter... what counter??
BAAAAAARRBBB.... THIS CONSPIRACY RUNS EVEN DEEPER THEN WE FIRST THOUGHT Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
I downloaded the program and found my way to the Letterville Room, but it was full! Seems to have a limit of 25 and not permit spectators on the side lines.
Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
Rick, You shoulda been there! I thought it was a lot of fun and a good way for Mark Smith to disseminate information. It worked without a hitch (other than the unknown 25 visitor limit).
Listening to Mark speak about EstiMate, instead of just looking at typed words, was informational AND entertaining. While he spoke, the rest of us went off-course and on-topic at times, like a bunch of kids with ADD. I don't know how he stayed on-topic. The nice thing about it though was that since you were LISTENING to him, the rest of the session continued like a good chat room should. Those times you wanted to say more than you wished to type, the opportunity was there.
My thanks to Steve, Barb, and of course Mark Smith for making it a great experience.
Barb wouldn't acknowledge when we raised our hand to go to the bathroom though Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Maybe Steve will convince Brian Briski to do a Signgold talk next week? I think there's more than 25 people who'd love to sit in on that one.
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
So now,after the last sh*t slinging contest that took place around here about merchants in the chat room,morality,ethics and having those who just cant mind their own friggin business inflame the self created drama that went with it behind the scenes......now,all of a sudden out of the blue its a good idea to have merchants in chatroom and its the most wonderful idea the place has ever seen? I cant really see how thats a great idea to promote honest exchange of info,but what do i know i'm just thinking about it honestly...but i guess it does prove that no matter what people will accept and embrace anything or anyone around here as long as they think its going to make them fit in with everyone else.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
I don't think there was ever a big deal made about sign merchants in the chat room. To the contrary, the idea was to have more.
I think there was initially some concern about off-the-wall ads and 'commercials'. This potential problem has been addressed.
:x Stop bein' babaies.(lol)
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
No big deal about sign merchants in the chat room? That's rich.
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
There was a monkeysh*t fight at the zoo because of merchants in the chatroom,but just like we jump on some people when they ask for a font and then publicly state its gonna get emailed to others,this too will become a victim of selective ethics and group mentality as long as it evolves into something everyone wants to believe more than they want it to be the truth or not.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
The big deal was the fact Brian was being paid by his employer for his time to promote and troubleshoot their product. I don't think that's too controversial. The vendor representatives that show up at live meets are PAID to be there, some (not many) would do it for nothing but if someone is willing to pay them, take advantage of it. Why not pay someone to provide the same exact service, even if it is in a chat room? If this is just an online letterhead meet, the vendor reps should be paid for their time as employees just the same.
Anyway, as far as participation in the chat room, simply switching to PalTalk is not going to increase it. Green Button chat is easy, anyone can get into that with two clicks.
The problem is, people go into the chat room at whatever time and there's nobody in there because their timing is just off, so after a few attempts and not finding anyone to chat with they give up. If everyone knew there were 10-15 people there EVERY NIGHT from 10pm-3am EST more would probably show up. Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
REALITY CHECK!!!!! Perhaps there is a difference in a merchant being invited versus just helping themselves ..............? I think that there are only two people who really know what went on in that situation, so why all the authorities? Whose playground is this? Who does all the work to keep it open? Do some want the satisfaction of seeing it destroyed just too have the bragging rights of being right? Is this constant nitpicking pleasurable? Do you think it causes stress to the administrators? Darn Right! If any of you came into my place and behaved this way you can bet your boots you'd be out on your ass*s. We all choose our own attitudes on things and no one can change that but ourselves. If a select few choose to take things personally and whine and gripe about it there isn't much anyone can do. This new feature wasn't initiated to leave any one out or slap any one in the face. I think you are all aware of that and if you choose to take it that way there isn't really anything anyone can do about it. It is starting to get really old. PalTalk has some new and improved features. It has brought in new people who don't have the typing skill to be active in chat. It allows one person to head a forum while others type in questions and it will allow videos for online demos. That is the reason it is being looked at. It doesn't mean that the old chat can't continue as it is. I don't know what the solution to the Mac thing is, but I really don't believe the majority of Mac users would deny everyone here this opportunity. Contact PalTalk personally and gripe to them. Expend your energy looking into solutions instead of causing problems. I think some need to take a step back and look at how they are coming across. Is this really who you are? If I sound ****ed off .......I am - the drama here is really getting to a lot of us.
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
Ya,this is who i really am,both online and off,i'm like this all the time and those here who either met or talk to me off the board can attest to that. The only way i come off here is honest and true to myself and my opinion and i offer input on a couple of subjects i know alot about and pretty much stay out of everything elseI couldnt care less about paltalk vs irc,but i am curious as to who "us" is,maybe its someone related to "they" from the famous but invisible "thats what they say" family......why does there have to be an "us" vs "them" mentality anyway on a site like this anyway where everyone's input is supposed to be valued equally? Like i said before,anything said here that isnt accepted 100% by everyone is taboo,stressful and the list goes on at times......but i guess i just read another site when i see all that or something,i'm such a silly goose that way sometimes. I have to go work 3 parades right now and wont be back till prob 12-1am so in lieu of filling up this thread till it gets locked,just send the usual emails to zeeman40@hotmail.com with paltalk post as a header.Enjoy the day
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
Some of "us" as in some of "everybody here" Gavin Sheesh talk about paranoia, I consider the people here as one unit "Letterheads" as in us I don't think there is a us and them thing going on - at least not in my ballpark. Can't I tell it like I see it too? LOL Doesn't mean I hate anybody or anything. I just thought there was a clear case of loss of perspective happening here. Maybe I am alone in this - but I really doubt it....
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
OK! Enough already. This sorta reminds me of that story about the pig and the chicken.
One day the chicken approached the pig and suggested that the two of them treat the farmer to a ham and egg breakfast. As you can imagine, the pig was less than excited with the idea. He had far more to lose.
This is a similar situation. Letterville is our sole source of income. We don't sell a magazine, product or represent any supplier or service. We make money by helping others make money.
From time to time, we stick our necks out and make decisions that are not always popular at first. We realize some people hate change, but at the end of the day, it is us who have the most to lose. That's the way it is in business.
Over the last 10 years, we are well aware some of our decisions and policies are not popular with everyone. There are even a few that may have made a decision to leave because of our business decisions. That's unfortunite, but there is some comfort in knowing they made some new pals during their stay here in Letterville.
We consider Letterville to be an online Letterhead Meet. It will never be possible to experience anything even close to the real thing, but we're trying.
Let's talk about that M word. Money! Letterheads are all about the free exchange of information. Everyone involved has something to contribute and each of us learn something new at a meet. We are all equal.
Unfortunitly, nothing is really free. We have attended "free meets" during the last 23 years, but not many. Those that are free are either sponsored by Suppliers or a donation pail is passed around. The knowledge is free, but the costs associated with hosting a meet, require money.
Letterville is possible due to the financial support of Residents and Merchants. When I need feedback on the website, I go to those that have an investment in this site for advice. Their financial backing indicates to me that they have faith in our dream, as well as a sincere desire to see it succeed. Is that wrong?
Last night we had a discussion about Determining Your Hourly Shop Rate. You can use a product like Mark's or take what you learned and invest in a pencil and paper. The point is I invited Mark to take part. He was not paid by anyone to be here. In fact, he actually gave away 2 $100 dollar gift certificates.
We sometimes learn by our mistakes. The incident Gavin refers to was unfortunite and entirely avoidable. I will never allow myself to be drawn into negotiating private business affairs in a public forum again. There are a few things in the lives of Barb and Steve that are simply nobody's business.
At the end of the day, it turns out that I really am a pig after all.
[ January 28, 2005, 05:09 PM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
PalTalk is a nice product with some great potential. To disregard it because some don't want to change or because a couple of computers can't use it would be ludicrous.
The opportunity to speak with a Merchant AND with users of the product/software/system/materials they represent is a good thing.
It's a live event folks, complete with voice intonations and attitudes. If a vendor makes a claim that is improper, there will be several people online who will be able to contradict or confirm the claims. Keeps everyone honest and allows a means of disseminating information in an interesting and timely manner.
Not all of us have the same needs or interests. Not all of us have the same questions to ask a vendor... but we can all benefit by listening. This is not a static commercial, it is an interactive product showcase, and as such, keep an open mind about it.
Hey, if you don't want to participate in a learning venture, then continue to do the normal chat thing. As long as it is around, I'm sure there will be people to use it, and that's a good thing.
I, for one, found it to be a good tool.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
quote:Originally posted by Kelly Thorson: REALITY CHECK!!!!! Perhaps there is a difference in a merchant being invited versus just helping themselves ..............?
The case I'm speaking of, the merchant was invited, or it was at least agreed to, that a single Monday each month was designated specifically for that merchant in chat, to answer questions and give advice. A fantastic idea 'cept the fact their representative was paid to do so, just as they would have been paid to attend a meet, but that apparently was a deal breaker.
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Thanks for clarifing the details of our private business deals Mike. You would know far better then we do about the business of running a website like Letterville.
I'll be sure to forward all our financial dealings with customers and users for your approval in the future. BTW? Do you do marriage consulting too?
Just joking with ya!
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
I tried to get onto Paltalk and Letterville wasn't on the list under Business and Finance. Does the room have to be open for it to show up????
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Yes Donna, I think on the estimate chat topic, Steve mentioned something about only being able to find the room when it is open & that being only when he (or someone with access) is there.
Steve, I agree with Donna's observation the other day that you have a real positive "way with words" quite often.
I also think Mike's post bothered you & your doesn't quite take the sting out of how it comes across. (pot calling the kettle black here, I realize... being such a venomous writer myself at times) ...but I wanted to share another viewpoint.
The history of events, discussions, memories etc. that take place here are made possible because of your creating this place. Although it is a business, as you pointed out, it is obviously an extension of your love for this trade.
For your role in creating Letterville, we are all somewhat indebted to you. You also give credit to the fact that financial contributions from merchants & residents plays a significant role, as does the involvement of visitors.
One of the biggest draws of this site for me is the development of relationships with so many people. After almost daily involvement for over 3 years, the history of events, discussions, & memories etc. that take place here are parts of OUR lives. If someone asks about some history, someone else recalls it for them. It happens when we search out old threads to answer new questions, & it happens when bits and pieces of Letterville history are swapped & shared to fill in the puzzle for others.
You stated that you hope to never again "be drawn into negotiating private business affairs in a public forum " Sounds like a good lesson for the future, but you can't change the past & the Signgold/Chat drama that went down did in fact go down in a public forum.
I don't think it is fair to be offended now if others talk about that event in public. It's not like Mike was exposing some heretofore unknown private secret
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
It's true Doug. I'm not perfect. I spend all day and half the night monitoring this BB. You only spend about 6-7 hours a day!
There are times that I get upset at what I read. In most cases I am able to stuff my face between the mattress and just scream. The odd time, I just can't resist hitting back. You know how that goes.
My only comment on the drama you and Mike brought up is this. What you saw on the BB was bits and pieces of a much more complex discussion with a business client of Letterville.
In reality, there are all sorts of phone calls, emails and other stuff that goes on behind the scenes. Many of the dramas I see on this BB, are the result of other events that nobody but the principles involved, really understand. Third parties jump in to defend their favorite team, and the war of words is on. It's silly.
What you often see here is just the tip of the iceberg. Don't believe everything you read. All parties involved in a debate are going to spin the facts to gain support for their side of the argument. In the process, much of the real truth is left out. Never assume! It often makes an ass u me.
In any case, I learned a valuable lesson. BTW...I am no longer the pot I once was. Below 260 now and still shrinking 3-5 lbs. a week.
Now let's get back to what was a damn fine discussion about PalTalk.
[ January 29, 2005, 07:02 AM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Gavin, I was not refering to a merchant problem with Brian on Mirc. Actually I have no details about such a problem other than the blather here.
I was refering to comments made about merchants with respect to Paltalk.
Here's an assinine, outrageous and bold assumption I have:
People who are great sales people should have a natural desire to contact, & communicate with, those to whom they sell to or hope to sell to. Therefore, it would make all the sense for those individuals to be scheduled to be on a CHAT SOMEWHERE to demonstrate & feild questions about their products REGARDLESS of whether their company pays them to do so or not.
I was simply making the statement that this was mentioned and worries quelled (I tho't) concerning merchants in PalTalk in the future.
Steve, if I'm wrong you may stone me . . Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
quote:...the drama you and Mike brought up ...
there you go getting defensive again Steve, ...drama I brought up? ??? I didn't bring it up any more then Mike did, & the differentation of Brian's being paid on Signgold chat nights seemed pretty damn innocent to me. I mean you publically drew that as a very specific line in the sand back then.
You won't find any judgement on your personal business decision in my post. I simply point out that we live here too, & discussing policy or the moving target of social correctness around here is part of the human interaction that sets a BB apart from a trade mag, or instructional video.
I don't know if you're more upset about the airing of the taboo on paid merchant/chat sessions, or on the rampant discord in your "damn fine discussion about PalTalk" but whichever it is, it ain't my doing.
Posted by BrianTheBrush (Member # 1298) on :
Boy oh boy...you can't imagine how much I wanted to stay out of this one. I had made up my mind that not only did I never want to bring all that old stuff up, but that I didn't want to get involved if someone else did.
What changed things, was Steve's comment about how "what was seen here was just bits and pieces" of what really went on. If it weren't for that statement, which makes it sound like there were aspects of that whole scenario that I wasn't forthcoming with, I would have left well enough alone.
I'm not going to rake up that old mud, but I feel a need to defend myself about that. What was posted here, was pretty much everything that was involved in that sistuation. I didn't keep anything from anyone here, or elsewhere. It was all unfortunate. End of story.
When I CHOSE to leave here, rather than back down from the stand I had taken...I did so with many regrets. I've told people that without a doubt, many here in Letterville, enough so that I would say Letterville as a whole, had become like an extra family. When I departed, it was much like saying goodbye to a family member. And like with any other loss, it got easier to deal with in time, and while I still very much missed my involvement, I was certainly carrying on.
In the days and weeks following July 9th of last year, several people contacted SignGold's main office, and expressed that as long as I was a part of SignGold, they wouldn't be using the product. Some of those people were Letterville regulars that I had helped, most often with non-SignGold issues. Things ranging from Substrates to Paint. When I saw some of the names on those letters and emails to SignGold, I'd be lying if I said it didn't bother the hell out of me. But I got on with things.
Needless to say, I still contract in to SignGold, and Steve still runs Letterville. Not much has changed.
I still check out the board occasionally. I saw the post about Estimate's upcoming chat, and didn't say a word. First and foremost, because in addition to being a business associate, Mark Smith is my friend. I would never rain on his parade. He's too much of a stand-up guy, a gentleman and a professional. Secondly, I wouldn't have said anything publicly about it, because it wasn't my concern, or my business. Steve has made it abundently clear to me, as well as others. This is HIS party, and he makes the rules.
When Steve and I (not SignGold, but me personally) butted heads once too often over issues, he made a business decision that SignGold was welcome to be a merchant, that I was welcome to be a resident, but that I could not represent SignGold here. My monthly chat nights hads Steve's blessing in the beginning, but by his own admittance, he didn't like the fact that I was compensated for them, or for answering questions on this board. We had long conversations (and shouting matches) on the phone. Anything that was pertinent to my SignGold Merchant status here, was posted by one, if not both of us. There was no secret, clandestine, back-room sequence of events, as Steve's comment earlier in this thread would indicate.
I was always up front. I never denied or retracted anything I said. Never said anything I didn't mean...and certainly didn't hide how I felt about things.
It's all in the past. it's Steve's party. He's allowed to change his mind, because it's his game. He can do what he wants with this websight. I would just ask that he not bring my integrity into question. I would certainly extend the same courtesy.
Miss lots of you guys, but sure don't miss the problems.
Keep on keepin' on,
Brian
Posted by Nevman (Member # 332) on :
I like PalTalk ....
: Editied to change PalChat to PalTalk
[ January 29, 2005, 02:41 PM: Message edited by: Nevman ]
Posted by Kimberly Zanetti (Member # 2546) on :
Just curious - with all the people involved here, what do you think the odds are on pleasing everyone at the same time? Ain't gonna happen.
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
There's alot to be said about knowing when to stop guys. You're all overdue. Back to Paltalk! Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
Some of you guys just don't come with an off switch! Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
Hey, I think we just heard it straight from the three lovely smiling ladies above. Who could start arguing again after that?
Steve and Barb, Will there be a button available above that we will be able to use to get to PalTalk.
That would be a nice addition.
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Just a reminder of what this post is all about.
Over the past week, we have been experimenting with a Letterville chat room we have created in PalTalk. Most users of our faithful, old mirc channel report PalTalk is easy to download, install and use. You can type to each other and share your files and photos, but there is also the ability to use voice and/or video. We've already planned an online interview on pricing your work and determining an hourly rate for later this week. Our online guest will be Mark Smith, the developer of Estimate Software. Start writing down your questions and watch this forum for more details.
Before going any further, we need to teach you how to download and install PalTalk. You'll also have to register a nickname and learn where to find the Letterville Room. Those who want to try the voice feature need to purchase a microphone. We suggest an inexpensive headphone with a mic. A headphone allows you to hear better without disturbing the rest of your family. Let's get started.
You'll find the PatTalk website at www.paltalk.com The first thing we need to do is download the program.
Downloading
Click on the 'Download All New Paltalk Messenger 7' button. You can't miss it! This will take you to the actual Download page. Select a place on your computer to save the file, and then click "Save". Download time is only a few seconds on a high speed connection and a couple of minutes on a 56K connection.
Depending on your Web browser's settings, you may see:
A security warning window. Click "Yes" to install Paltalk.
A file download window. Click "Save" to download Paltalk.
Installation
Once the download is complete, double click on the pal_install.exe icon or file that appears in the folder in which you saved the file. This will initiate the Paltalk installation.
Please note: Many software vendors, including PalTalk, recommend you shut off any anti virus program you are running while new software. Installations often require changes to the Window's Registry File. Most anti virus software detects this and you may find you get an error message and/or buggy installation.
After installation is complete, Paltalk should launch automatically. If everything has gone smoothly, it's now time to Register as a new PalTalk user. Please read the following closely.;
In PalTalk, you are allowed a number of various nicknames. I have one I use for just goofing around, and another I use in the Letterville Chat. We'd like you all to use the same name you use on the BullBoard in the Letterville Chat room. Example? I am steve_shortreed. Barb is barb_shortreed Our real first and last names.
Why real names you ask? There are a couple reasons. The first is confusion. It is vital that we all know exactly who each other are. My memory isn't as good as it once was, and I have a hard time with nicknames. For our own security, I want to know who I am talking with at all times.
The second reason is really much like the first. Letterville is not a secret society. We are all fanatical about what we do and proud of it. Many of us are also small business people. We're here to have fun, as well as to learn. There is simply no need to hide behind a nickname. Register a second or third nick for use in other, less community oriented, rooms.
During the registration process, you will be required to choose a password and create a secret question and answer. You will now be asked if you wish to subscribe to additional services or third party advertising. This is not unusual today. Everyone is looking for ways to increase revenue and a voluntary mail list is one of the most popular. Many consider it spam. Answer no if you don't want any of this stuff!
So you're registered and looking for the Letterville Chat Room. Where the heck is it?
PalTalk consists of 2 windows. Your main control window, and a room window. In the free version of PalTalk, you may see a popup window. Use any popular popup ad killer to eliminate these if you desire. We're interested in the main PT window at this point.
Look for a group of 4 tab selections called Home Groups Pals Favorites. You want to click on the Groups Tab, scroll down the list to the Business & Finance section. Click on it to open and look for Letterville. Double click on that link to join the room. That’s all there is to it!
At the present time, we have a free room. We have to have the room open in order for you to use it. Rather than sit waiting all day, we are opening the room at specific times. Right now, the room will be open 2-4 pm EST every afternoon and evenings from 8pm until midnight. Drop by, save the room as a Favorite, and start building your own Pal List of other Letterheads. Barb and/or I will be there to chat with.
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
I still can't get there... I loaded it & ran it, & it said it couldn't connect. Following the help link, I went back & manually altered the XP Firewall with the reccommended settings. After a reboot & log on the next day I still get the "can't connect" box. (to get/register a name)
Manually, I got there as "Guest331" after just typing the URL in the browser bar, but couldn't find the specific windows mentioned- I got to a "Money & Finance" group but not "Business & Finance" as mentioned above, & got no further than that- no Letterville in sight.
Must be doing something wrong on 2 accounts, I just don't know which 2! (I'm using XP SP1, not SP2) & Firefox.)
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
I've tried PalTalk a few times and so far have very mixed feelings about it...but I won't stop playing with it.
With irc, I involve my fingers to speak and my eyes to read. If I walk away for a minute I can read what was missed and catch up.
With this new chat room, I can speak with my fingers or my voice and listen with my eyes and my ears. I like involving more of my senses, but find some inequity across the board. Those without mic's cant speak. Those without speakers can't hear. Those that type might miss a large portion of what's going down. The stuff said is not documented for the others and there is no catching up after answering a phone call. I also find that with the irc I could silently be in a room with other people and still participate without seeming wierd. With the new chat, I'm in a room with my wife making dinner and I'm sitting there talking to no one seen and she needs to hear a lot of one side of conversations and also needs to hear the distraction of the sounds from something she has no desire to participate in. It seems much more suited for someone that lives alone.
Posted by Tim & Kathy Cameron (Member # 1721) on :
I just wanted to say I very much enjoyed the Thursday night session with Mark. It was very informative to me. I'm a great typist but I did think that listening to Mark talk helped transfer perhaps more information than would have been transfered by type. JMHO though. My husband loves it cause he is a 'novice' typer. Anyway, thanks for the info and we look forward to joining more sessions.
Posted by Linda Silver Eagle (Member # 274) on :
I have the same issues that Rixax has...I have tried a similar program. It's great when you're watching your daughter bounce your grandson in front of a web cam but "lots of voices in my head" has never been on my itinerary...been hangin with furby in mIRC but really miss folks.
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
I still prefer mike-less chat myself but there's a nifty feature to turn off the mike beside your name so others know not to talk to you and have to type instead.
I like the new variety of folks dropping in!
Found it very easy to install and super user friendly. Nice how you can change the font and color of your type so you stand out from the rest. Many nice features.
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
"The only thing that bothers me is the lack of participation in our current chat. Compare the number of BB users to chat users. Some of that is our fault. We should have more structured things going on."
Speaking for myself, there is a big difference between chat and posting on the BB. For newcomers the BB is intimidating enough, there seem to be cliques present. Chat magnifies these feelings. I've done chat on and off in the past. It has it's good points and it has it's bad points. I've started some really good friendships on chat and had some great times. More often than not, cause I'm not a regular, I feel lost. The slapping around with the wet trout and all the other little tricks were just to much to try and learn. Because I was an infrequent visitor there was always a lot of talk going on about stuff I didn't understand. On the BB you just leave a confusing post. On chat, you're stuck watching it unfurl in front of you. Most nights I find chat really boring. That's just the way it hits me. Like the BB isn't for everyone, I've got good friends in the trade that just don't like using it, chat isn't for everyone. The fact that way less people use chat that the BB tells me I'm not alone. Another thing, I can get on the BB any time of the day or night, chat hours are real limited. By my time zone, you'ld better be there between 10 and 1 or it's mighty lonely. I don't think I've gone to chat in six months, it might be that long if I go there again , if ever. My computer is really sucking and I'm not downloading anything new at this time. If it was up to snuff, I probably still wouldn't.
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
George, ya better duck! This post thread has been reserved for only posts from people thrilled with paytalk. The inner circle is watching and prepared to pounce.
"Just a reminder of what this post is all about."
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
Not true Don. I'm also curious as to what others think. It's just that we've already heard from YOU numerous times. When have you had enough?!?
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Told ya, George.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Donna...I posted my positive response ONCE earlier on.
It seems only those with a negative attitude are the ones who need to post SO frequently!
I find it strange that so many are intent on dragging down Steve's efforts to come up with newer ideas, when he was the one who created the very place that allowed all of us to come together in the first place!!!!
My second and final response on this thread.
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
We're missing one of them. Give it a few minutes.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
LOL George . . .don't duck. You ain't got a reason to...you just said it like it is for you, and many others. Some like it (mIRC)...some don't. No biggie.
I'm a firm believer in the old saying,
Don't start no mess, and there won't be no mess"
But that saying comes in second to:
"Tell it like it is."
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
I have tried to download this three times already and every time I try, I get an error in dowload messgae. I give up. The third time was definately not the charm.
As far as the other stuff, who cares. Sheesh. I give up on that, too.
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Don! There is no inner circle my friend. What you see is a business owner trying to make a change that will attract more users. Nothing more. It's upsetting to see you getting so crazy over this. The people of Letterville have always looked after their own. You know that personally. Relax. We WILL solve your problem somehow.
[ January 30, 2005, 10:50 PM: Message edited by: Steve Shortreed ]
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
I rarely post on these type of threads, but I count 4,917 users here. That's a pretty good size small town. How many of your customers are completely satisified with your business decisions! Some of you guys need to take a bigger look.
Posted by david drane (Member # 507) on :
Could we have a rep from Avery come on Pal talk to discuss A8. (Just kidd'n)
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
I got an even better idea David. I'll invite the first vinyl supplier that opens a store in Letterville. If Avery is interested, I have no problem.
We're looking for experts on a process rather than a product. Last week we had Mark Smith. The questions included Estimate, but the majority were all about determining shop rates and pricing.
I'm hoping to have another guest this week. Watch for that info Monday.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Nothing to add here...I'm just trying to slowly turn my controversial/non-controversial posting ratio into the non-controversial weighted percentile.
I've turned over a new leaf...and after several future postings, I hope to have redeemed myself to the few I might have offended.
But be patient....a relapse isn't out of the question. Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Oh...and just a thought:
"In searching for the "high-road", you sometimes have to crawl through the ditch."
I just came up with that one....you may use it for free, but please credit my name when repeating it.
Posted by John Stagner (Member # 4091) on :
I'm with you Bruce. I tried several times to get to pal talk's website, to no avail. Finally got the download at download.com: http://www.download.com/PalTalk/3000-2150_4-10339795.html?tag=lst-0-1 But everytime I try to run it, I get a popup that says it's an old version (it isn't). Then another popup says I'm an idiot. Then another popup asks,"Do you even know what you're doing?" Followed by a popup that points at me and laughs... I'm going to bed.
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
LOL John!!!
Posted by Barb. Shortreed (Member # 1730) on :
Glad you made it John, it was good talking with you last night Posted by Del Badry (Member # 114) on :
Paltalk: (PS) Your text messsages are currently disabled in this room.
ive been getting this message since yesterday... 4 times ive logged on....
banned already Posted by Barb. Shortreed (Member # 1730) on :
Hi Del...I'm in the room now if you want to drop in and we'll see if we can get this fixed for you.
Posted by Del Badry (Member # 114) on :
thanks... workin great now...
Posted by john randall (Member # 2450) on :
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Did you mean lewdite??![[Cool]](cool.gif)
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