Man, I dream of the day when PC makers get enilghtened. There is no need for those huge ugly wasted space boxes with inefficient usage of inside real estate.
I got a Dell 4600C which is near to what i wish for. its 3x12x12. Fits perfectly into the front lobby show case.
A 4 x 6 x 6 PC with the goodies i need is what i long for.
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
It is a cute little box, the G5 Tower is massive in comparison. I like it, but then again I liked the Cube and look what happened to that.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Curtis, check these PC's out. They might have what you want:
Rick the Cube freaked me out man, turning on automatically when it senses your hand nearby... Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Don't know about professional use, but wouldn't that be great for a dormitory room! (Talk about coming a long way...my university campus had one computer for all the students, and it took up it's own building. Now here's one that would almost fit into a cigar box.)
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
Those Cappuccino PC are cool but only 256 megs of ram, newer programs would eat that up in no time, I thought the could was pushing it with only 1 gig on the mini (geez I remember when 10 megs was state of the art)
[ January 23, 2005, 07:20 PM: Message edited by: Rick Chavez ]
Posted by Dan Antonelli (Member # 86) on :
That's why Steve Jobs is brilliant.
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
The teeny mac claims to be 6.5" square and 2" deep for 500 bux.
The pc one is 5.74" x 6.18" x 1.77". Doesn't that make it smaller than the Mac one? Oh yeah, this one goes for 325 bux ... making it cheaper too.
What am I missing?
Who came out with it first? (in other words, who copied who? )
[ January 23, 2005, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: Janette Balogh ]
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
quote: This thing is smaller than the Cappucino PC's!
someones reading the fine print you got a point there, maybe the "smaller" claim was based against the $500 Mocha @ 6.34" x 7.8" x 2.44" Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
The Cappuccinos have been out for a pretty long time, I'm guessing 7 or 8 years, but they weren't that small back when I was using them in car audio installs as massive MP3 players and control centers complete with touchscreens and real time vehicle diagnotics. They've gotten smaller over the years but I didn't even know they were still made til the Mac mini reminded me of them. Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
Mike.. I never knew those existed...
Now thats what im talkin about! Mac or PC either one tiny is perfect..
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Bet that lil thing is a screamer (from the cooling fans, that is); otherwise it will burn up from the heat it generates in that small space!
Think I would rather have a full size one!
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
Si,,
They are using laptop low voltage CPU's and special heat sinks. They work really good. .. I need one,, bad,,
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Si, nah, Apple wouldn't produce a noisy machine, they'd figure out how to maximize cooling efficiency and use the quietest brushless motors they could find.
I've taken the cover off my Dell laptop and it has a heat exchanger over the processor with copper tubing running to a radiator and heatsink by the cooling fans!
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
I'm still thinking along the lines of Si's statement. Downsized parts in a small space means less reliability. At least that has been the way of laptops.
My last laptop's video card went out along with a few other problems that desktops usually don't get. Still the MiniMac looks good and may entice a lot of PC users to go Mac for an extra computer.
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
You got that right, Dave! Especially us guys that do a lot of work for real designers that only work on Mac's.
I, for one, am going to be looking into this....
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
i got a dell lappy and its 5 yrs old and never had a prob with it,, runs like new,, Posted by TJ Duvall (Member # 3133) on :
" The barebone system does not include CPU, memory, hard disk and CD drive, It includes the casing, motherboard, CPU heatsink and blower, AC/DC Power supply, driver disk and manual."
That is what you get for $495 from the small PC. By the time you add the the stuff to really make it usable it is over $700.
The MacMini looks by far like the better deal to me.
Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on :
...Every six months (it seems) Apple introduces something new, innovative and amazing. Whats next?
...Last Saturday, a manager in the Apple store here was telling me that the mini is just as good as the new G5 IMAC (which I just bought). At first I was bummed that I may have bought the "wrong" unit, 'til I added up the prices of a 20" monitor, keyboard, mouse, speakers and bluetooth.
...Even with the "old" G4 chip, its still a great new thing (and deal). Especially if you already have the necessary doo dads.
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
So, lets see if I'm understanding this. The pc one has been around for years (7 to 8), the cappacino one now being smaller than the new MiniMac,... yet Mac has just come out with something "new, innovative and amazing" ... hmmmm, okay.
I'm also reading that the barebones pc starts at $325.
Guess I'm not on the same page as you guys.
Posted by TJ Duvall (Member # 3133) on :
If you start with the Mocha barebones, by the time you upgrade to the stuff the Mac comes with standard you are up to $947 for the Mocha. You have to compare the machines on an equal level performance wise before you can even argue the price.
Posted by Dale Manor (Member # 4858) on :
I am considering one of the Mini Macs. I am currently using a PowerBook G4 laptop and have had no trouble with it at all. But I need to upgrade my home computer. Since I already have a monitor, keyboard, and mouse, this sounds like a great machine. OSX is a great operating system that has very user friendly software, and does not crash.
Apple's iPod has sold over 10 million units, leaving other manufacturers scrambling to catch up. I bought one at Christmas and it is a great little device, 1000's of songs, contact lists, clock, and audio books in your pocket. At Christmas I saw sales people pushing these other "types" of iPod's because they were a bit cheaper. You might save a few bucks up front but they don't offer the whole system.
If you look over the history of the Apple Corporation, they have traditionally been at the leading edge of industrial design. From the way they package the item to how to buy songs for your iPod, to their suite of pre-installed software.
I think it is about perceived value. Personally I would rather carve in stone than use a PC. I would and have paid a lot more money for a Mac over the PC. I tend to do a bit more graphic design so I lean toward the industry standard...IMHO
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Actually Dale, some of the other Mp3 players offer more than the Ipod. The Ipod is the leader and well designed but it is rivaled by Rio's Carbon and Creative Zen.
Like I said the MiniMac is going to allow many to add an alternative platform to their household or business, but the world runs on the Windows platform.
What is Apple's market share, about 3%? They should lower the prices and try to grab more of it.
What about software, do we need to buy a Mac version of Photoshop etc. now?
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
David, that's the only sticking point for me - the price of the Apple line is chump change considering what you get (UNIX in a niiiiice package). Thousands in software is still a big pill to swallow on top of it, although there is virtual PC software for MAC that lets you run windows software I hear it hogs up resources which is understandable. I bet someone going from Windows to Mac w/VirtualPC wouldn't even notice a difference in performance, if any the Mac would probably still perform better. On the flipside there is Open Source software available that operates under UNIX, thusly under OSX too. Windows software can be ported to UNIX for the techies.
Posted by Doug Fielder (Member # 803) on :
Anyway you look at it, the Mac is a far superior product! A lot easier to use, faster and isn't effected by most viruses out there. They also don't crash nearly as much.
I'm a Mac user since 1985 and can tell you that the ease of use is second to none.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Cool I found this nifty site that has a comparison of the mini with the other systems Apple has to offer.
I just found out that Target of all places, is selling the Mac mini.
Building on the success of the iPod, this could be the jumpstart Apple has needed.
Posted by Scott Pagan (Member # 2507) on :
yep the mini mac is nice. it's mainly configured for PC users who want to migrate in a step-by-step way. get the mini and use you current key/mouse/monitor, add programs you need that aren't OS X related, and you're a Mac user. once you get hooked, they hope you buy into the whole attitude and experience (G5 w/ 22" widescreen) :smile: ...and you know how the iPod phemon will drift over into this as well.
but if you check the specs, you can get comparable hardware much cheaper and more power at the same price. it's the "safety" from viruses/spyware/ad-bloat that they're playing on. i like mac, but buy PC. i'm sure product like the mini (and future offerings) will only attract many users wanting a compliment of options when looking for computers.
i think the big new product is the shuffle. a sweet little audio player that has lots of storage 512mb or 1G. not bad for under $200. if they could get away from the iTunes/AAC format and open it up to non-proprietary software, it'd be a blockboster.
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
A few years back, I seem to recall Bill Gates saving Apple from bankruptcy by infusing the company with several million dollars.
I don't recall all the details....but am wondering if Mac's are the 'end all' why they almost bit the dust?
Also, I hear 'mac's are easier to use' a lot. I tried to use one once and it didn't seem easy at all to me....things weren't intuitive like people describe them...I think a fairer statement would be, "whatever platform you learned on is the easiest to use."
But I do like what I have seen from a visual "fun" aspect...when you click on things.
Posted by Dale Manor (Member # 4858) on :
Todd, Back in the mid 90's or so the head of Apple was running the business into the ground. They were introducing new models about every few months. Then Steve Jobs stepped back in and things took off again. Of course Mr. Bill would step with in $$$'s so he could keep selling copies of Office to all the Mac users.
Back in 1991 or so, I was learning both platforms. On one I would have to type things like this - //:c//:: to get the computer to do anything. Or I could sit down to a Mac and go through a simple tutorial that taught you about the computer in a matter of minutes. This was about the time Mac was suing MS for putting out Windows 3.1.
These days I am amazed at the number of pieces of equipment I have plugged into my G4 and had them recognized without pre-loading their software. Digital cameras, media readers, printers...just plug it into the USB and let'r go.
Personally I'm glad that Mac has a small market share....the Hackers seem to focus on the other 97%.
Please don't buy a Mac!
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Dale, hehehe...thanks for the explaination...I couldn't remember the details of that bailout.
I could go for Mac's with no problem, I'm sure...but the purchase of all new software would be the thing to really make me think twice....
Consumer reports just did a recent review on laptops and the Mac came out on top for reliability and fewest repairs.....that says something.
Posted by Kevin Gaffney (Member # 4240) on :
Why all the fuss of mac vs pc. My latest pc, about four months old now, loaded with a gig of ram, runs all applications seamlessly and has never once crashed. Photoshop is as quick as I can hit the keys. Can't understand what use any more power would be. Maybe some of the mac users will tell me why my machine is so inferior
Posted by Bob Nugent (Member # 3743) on :
Can a new kid play? For my first post I would like that everyone use the computer that they like. I have a Mac Powerbook on my left, A Mac dual Processor in front of me and a PC to my right. I get'er done. The PC is my wife's old machine that I had a new hard drive put in and I refuse to hook it to the internet because of viruses. Macs= no Viruses. My wife is now on her third PC because when it crashes, she buys a new one. PC's are one keystroke away from talking to someone in India at any moment. Having said all this, I enjoy this board and the uncontrolled mayhem that is it's want and peculiar bent.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
quote: I enjoy this board and the uncontrolled mayhem ...
yep, you can play here. I think you'll fit in just fine Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Kevin, I don't think anybody is saying that your machine is inferior.
I've heard the argument of mac vs pc as comparing apples to oranges. But, that isn't an accurate comparison. There are some pc's that are as good as macs, but absolutely not all and arguably not many. I think one huge difference is that only one company makes macs, while everybody and his brother produces pc knockoffs. The computer that you have can't likely be compared to one bought off the shelf at a Walmart.
Mac users have come to rely on their stability and state of the art processing power. It's sort of like ordering a steak from your favorite restaurant...you know it's going to be good.
If someone wants to spend a few extra bucks, they can have a great machine in a pc. Mac users spend the bucks up front, knowing the quality of an off the shelf mac is standard.
What makes quality so important is that upgrades, parts and service cost out the nose after the warranty wears off.
In short, there are pc's that are as good and dependable as macs, but it isn't a given.
By the way, a main reason that printers and newspapers generally use macs, is that the color management is superior. I don't know if that is anywhere near as important for sign companies.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
LOL...that's a pretty funny first post Bob...
In defense of PC's though...if you run antivirus software and keep it up-to-date you should be just fine. I can't tell you the last time (or first time) I ever got a virus on my PC.....
And crashes? I don't encounter the "crash" as a result of an inferior OS......only on the occassional hard drive that just plain gives up the ghost.
For all the gazillions of PC users, they must be reliable enough to keep going that route or there would be a groundswell of mac converts.
I'd say they are both good...Mac's probably more reliable.
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
And Todd, you're right about all new software. That stuff is the most expensive part of any computer, no matter what flavor!
Posted by Rovelle W. Gratz (Member # 4404) on :
Buy a MAC, then load it with Microsoft Office like everyone does.
This could be argued from now to Doomsday and the MAC folks are going to stick to Mac.
I would like to see some current statistics on the percentage of MAC vs PC Designers out there.
I used MACs for years alongside a PC.
Believe me, I have seen, "THE BOMB" many times more than I have crashed a PC.
Look at the 2 Volumes over 1 1/2" thick on Troubleshooting the MAC.
Most of the software for the MAC has a long learning curve compared to the PC.
Moving files around is probably the best feature of the MAC.
I've never had any trouble finding a printing service to take PC files.
Photo Shop is the reason we kept our MACs...When we got it for the PCs the MACs went out the door.
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Do a topic search for "mac vs pc ****ing contest". Now THERE'S a thick volume. LOL
Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
PC's are more popular simply because Apple kept all of it's code proprietary. If you wanted a program for a Mac you had to buy it from them, or from someone they had licensed to produce it.
In an effort to compete Windows opened up to allow anyone to produce software, choosing to make money from selling Windows.
When the personal computer market exploded Mac was unable to compete. Competition drove PC prices down, software competition drove software prices down. For a first computer most people were not willing to spend twice as much for a better product.
So people bought PC's and Windows comes standard on almost every PC made today (which was the most brilliant move of any business, ever) and has become the standard for platforms.
The inferior PC became standard, since most people were using it because it was cheaper and more readily available.
Windows is the cause of half the problems people have with PC's anyway. Linux is such a happier platform.
My G5 is bigger than your P4 anyway
[ January 26, 2005, 09:41 PM: Message edited by: Patrick Whatley ]
Posted by Dan Streicher (Member # 4515) on :
my only fear is loosing the years of use of corel is there a mac friendly version?
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
CorelDraw 11 for mac, Dan. Why, ya thinkin bout givin that mini a drive?
[ January 26, 2005, 10:22 PM: Message edited by: Don Coplen ]
Posted by Bob Nugent (Member # 3743) on :
Mac vs PC, Oh, how I love the challenge. The numerical statistics of designers on either machine is irrelevant, because each person is getting the job done on the machine that they have. I agree with Don that the Mac user has a machine built by Mac running mostly Mac software. The operating system on OSX (Unix) is up to date and rock solid. System 9 is gone and replaced with state of the art new system. Underneath Windows flashy front is still DOS with it's windows of opportunity for hackers. Mac's have Itunes,Imovies,Idvd,Garage Band,Iphoto, all Mac applications by Mac, for Mac. They come with the operating system. All of the major applications that we use are there. Photoshop, Illustrator being the most used. Both cross platform with PC. The learning curve is no longer than PC and in my opinion is much shorter. Plug and play is decidedly more feasible on a Mac. No searching for new hardware, boom, it pops up on the desktop ready to use. I also have never had a problem getting a printing service to print a file from a Mac. If a printing service can't print a file from a Mac it is a poor service. Now for the best reason for my Mac love fest is that they just plain look sexy. The chrome door G4 in front of me is, IN MY OPINION, the best looking industrial design going. And it is not the newest. In actually fact I like it better than the new G5. I think I have given myself a headache, so I will look forward with breathless anticipation and my eyes ablaze with anticipatory delight, the next exciting chapter.
Posted by Dan Streicher (Member # 4515) on :
I'm not limiting myself to the mini as it sounds as if it is more for entertainment than professional purposes maybe I am wrong....wouldn't be the first or the last time, however I am not a loyal PC guy, just want what works and what works with the littlest down time, pain, and such and the last few years in PC world have easily justified what used to be a price difference between the two. I am scared of the grass is greener on the other side but hey sometimes you have to say what the #&%#? to quote a old Tom Cruise movie.....any input?
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Without ever seeing teh mac mini in action, I would guess you're right about it not likely being for professional use. It's more likely an entry machine that would be perfect for a student. Has plenty of power, but uses up very little desk space. A definite plus for a college dorm room.
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
I like opening the door of my G5. Kinda like taking the hood off your car and showing of the engine...(as I type this out on my PC) I saw the Mini at the Apple store, very compact. I think with a gig of ram it would be more than okay for any sign and simple print design application.
[ January 27, 2005, 02:10 AM: Message edited by: Rick Chavez ]
Posted by Bill Modzel (Member # 22) on :
It's nice to see all the Mac users come out of the closet. There seems to be a few more of us around here than there used to be.
Rovelle, From your comments you haven't touched a Mac in 4 years and have never seen OS X. Stability is awsome, multiple user options are great. If more than you are using the sysetm, your stuff is totally protected. I have a 17" powerbook that I've networked and use as a rip for my HP5000. Right now I have Illustrator, PhotoShop, iPhoto and Posterjet running under my user pane. My wife has Quickbooks, Word, Excel and Safari running in her space. All apps loaded and a tab click away. It has been running like this for weeks. Never shut down. I unplug it Friday and take it to the cabin to work, plug the ethernet back in Monday morning and were off and running.
Pricing is very comparable to quality PC's with equivelent features. Except for ram there is probably nothing you would need to add to most production oriented systems. Start building a Dell with everything the G5 comes with and your catch up very quickly.
Viruses, spyware, adware. I've heard of such things but never experianced them. How many of you guys have had your pc's taken over by that junk? How often do you jave to update your virus apps? How often have MS "service packs" totally screwed you system?
You can compare hardware till the cows come home but it's the OS!
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
*stickerpimp flashes back to the Apple commercial released at the 1984 Super Bowl - it finally makes sense (of course I was only 8 years old when that was aired, LOL)
Posted by Bill Modzel (Member # 22) on :
Your right Mike. Only it was aimed at Big Blue and it should have beem Microsoft.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
I thought it *WAS* Microsoft.. hahaha.
The more I look at it, the more I like the mini. Plus, Apple made the memory user upgradeable and will not void warranties if people change it themselves, unless of course they break something else in the process. I'd probably do my own 1GB upgrade though using Crucial RAM and save about $200 off Apple's upgrade price.
My graphics processing needs are not that demanding, plus I'm sure the mini has more power than what I'm using right now! (a 700MHz Dell notebook).
That might change though with an 8 megapixel camera in the works.
Posted by Bob Nugent (Member # 3743) on :
Like a moth to the flame, the discussion goes on. First question is what are you going to do with the computer whether it is a Mac Mini, or a PC. If you plug into the internet I would not have a PC. You will pay the price in time, and money for adware, spyware and virus updates and fixes. I use everyday what I consider the best solution. Mac for all graphics, multimedia production, internet coordination, database, and bookkeeping. I use the PC for testing web page, flash, and interactivity with the internet browsers, plus a few programs that I like on a PC, such as Punch CAD software, and a flash based program for web design. I do connect to the internet with a PC to test browsers, but that is all. The Mac mini in much more than a student or entertainment machine, it is a full bore G4 based computer just like the G4 Powerbook that I have used for a year and will do everything that I shove at it. It may suffer the same fate as the cube, because people don't believe it is big enough to be a computer, but it sure is. If you buy any computer, get all the RAM you can get. PERIOD. RAM will do more for performance than just about anything. If you buy a Mac Mini get the superdrive, and a huge hard drive, if you intend to do any multimedia work. When I referred to crashes on the PC, I refer not to hard drives or operating systems per se, but to the fact that the PC system is susceptible to attack and that best way to fix it is to install a new hard drive and system. Then don't connect the PC to the internet again. Time for my medication and if you disagree, nevermind
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to get the computer to do anything. Or I could sit down to a Mac and go through a simple tutorial that taught you about the computer in a matter of minutes. This was about the time Mac was suing MS for putting out Windows 3.1.