Seems like rant day here Ok here is the scenerio - customers 1st objective is the lowest price (hmmm where have we heard this before...) doesn't care what kind of vinyl, etc. 2nd is he wanted it yesterday (hmmm...)
We'll fast forward - some of the vinyl had a reaction to 1 of his plexiface signs and he wants it replaced. As far as I'm concerned the sign still works - does it ever stop working?, just really bubbly up close.
I'm planning on charging him for my time to remove & replace but not the cost of the "high dollar" vinyl
Or should I just eat the job as a good will jesture? Inquiring Sign guys want to know.
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
I fit's a 2'x3' eat it and move on...on the other hand if it is a 4' x 16' negotiations might be the order of the day!
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
He wan't "cheap and fast"... and that's what he got!
The old saying..cheap, fast and quality, pick two....applies here!
Charge him if he wants it replaced.
[ January 20, 2005, 06:58 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
Posted by Dan Sawatzky (Member # 88) on :
Brian
There's lots of variables here...
How long was the sign up?
His opinion of you and your work will never take into consideration that he specified (or did he?) poor quality materials. Does he have a voice in the community which you might be worried about in the future?
I knoiw I HATE callbacks, and don't often get them. But then again I don't do work for folks who's primary concern about my product is price alone.
Do the right thing... for you... follow your heart and sleep well afterwards.
Good luck.
-grampa dan
Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
Brian, Consider WHAT caused the problems with the sign BEFORE you remove and reinstall. You may be in store for more of the same.
How large is the sign? Was it plexiglas or lexan? Was it new material or his old material, cleaned off? What kind of damage could the vinyl possibly have done to his plastic??? What caused the bubbling, why hasn't it subsided yet (it normally will in just a few days)? Did you use Translucent vinyl or just try to get away with Intermediate (a no-no)?
Need more info before I will give a guess.
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
How long has it been up?
If it had a reaction to the plexi & is bubbling, could that be because it's cheaper vinyl? If so, re-doing it with the same materials isn't going to solve that problem, you'd have to use the "high dollar vinyl". Of course, he pays! He got what he paid for, cheaper materials. Doing the job with cheap materials, stripping it & re-doing with more expensive materials while only paying for the initial cheap job ain't gonna happen.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
WEll now,
Did you use the same vinyl for the entire job. If so and it pickle skinned in one spot or one row of letters then its an install problem.
I've never observed a reaction between the vinyl and plex or lex. Did you use anything to clean the substrate. A wrong choice here will give you pickle skin but usually the letters do not stick right anyway.
Lots of tiny bubbles is an install problem. Big blisters is an install problem. Wrinkles is an install problem.
In fact, I just did a few panels today. I did three and my helper did part of one. He had to redo his part because he had pickle skin. He was quick to say the substrate was dirty or something. Thus I showed him and his pickled again and mine did not.On the redo he did two letters and I did the rest. His pickled again. Its all part of the experience.
The answer.. Redo it. It wasn't done right. No matter what it sounds like an install problem to me. Even if he insisted on the cheapest, and you used calandered and it did't work.
By the way. Peel of a small part of it. Is it stuck pretty good? If so the job did not fail from a reaction.
Good luck..
Posted by Brian Diver (Member # 1552) on :
Size - it's probably a 2x8. It's been up about 17 months his material (I'm not sure if its plexi or lexan). I told him from the begining that it should be translucent but he didn't want the extra expense (#1 priority was expense so like a bonehead I used intermediate to satisfy the client). I did 2 signs with the same vinyl. 1 looks perfect the other had some sort of reaction. I sent pictures to the vinyl manufacturer and they said it was probably the outgassing of the plexi/lexan or the prep was not right. I prepped both the same, used the same brand vinyl for both and just 1 color is acting up on one particular sign the other color on it is fine...
The owner does not really have any kind of voice in the community but I'd be willing to split the cost if its that much much of a problem and he's loosing business over it. Being up on the side of a building which nobody gets to close to you can't even tell there is any problem unless you get close up and how many customers scrutinize clients signs? Oh well, I'll give him a jingle and explain my point of view and see where it goes.
Posted by J & N Signs (Member # 901) on :
After 17 months of being up, he pays for you to redo the sign or he gets another signmaker to do it......bye bye is my motto on this one!
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
if he was that cheap, you probably didn't make enough anyway... if he doesn't like the results on HIS material... you sure don't want to offer to try again. Offer him a NEW sign, on NEW plex & offer the deduct the price of the first job (not half price, the whole price for the ONE sign)
Or give him back half the money, let him keep the sign & lose him as a customer (sounds like you wouldn't want him as a customer anyway)
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
People insist on crap and then are incredulous when they find out it stinks.
I'm with Mario on this one. Hope it works out for you.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
USed old material. his material. His demands. =
NO Guarantee No refunds So sorry.
Too bad,, So sad
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
Redo only if using NEW materials that you supply at full price.
17 months, using his materials (how can you offer any warranty on stuff you didn't supply?)and cheap vinyl (cause he didn't want to pay for the good stuff you recommended).
He got what he paid for.
Cash up front or buh-bye
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Ditto's to the above totally Brian . . .seventeen months is right at a YEAR and a half . . .
Why did he not call much, much sooner??????
An' BTW, ya get a 5 year warranty on a brand new $32,000 truck and only on SOME parts at that . . .
I can think of very few items AND/OR services that are warrantied for more than a year . . .
Combined with the fact that he was a tightwad to begin with tryin' to save that almighty dollar . . . I imagine he can hang with it another year or two 'til the intermediate vinyl starts really failing . . .mabey he'll even do you a favor and call someone else by then . . . Posted by Lotti Prokott (Member # 2684) on :
After all this time it's not likely an installation problem, therefore not your fault since you used exactly the materials he wanted you to use. I'd stress that fact when talking to him.
Can I suggest that you just stall a little bit with this? I've had one guy complaining about a small problem (probably caused by crappy MDO) and I told him I'd look at it next time I'm in the area. The second time he approached me about it, I said I'd keep an eye on it to see if it gets worse. Never heard of him again, I think he learned to live with it. It won't always work, but it's worth a try Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
A year and a half???
Sorry, given the material choices that's way beyond any reasonable warranty period.
Fact is he probably never noticed it until one day someone pointed it out to him. Maybe a friend or another signmaker in town saw it up close and said something like "Well, that lettering is bubbled and I would make that guy do it over."
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
Let's see if I have this right. He comes in with some used piece-of-crap plastic face, whines about the price, then - a YEAR AND A HALF LATER - comes around bellyaching about bubbles that no one can see without sticking their nose in it?
Your first mistake was doing anything at all for this clown. So take the opportunity to learn from this. Set a few rules:
1. Customers do NOT specify materials, nor do they drag their tired old shyt into your shop and insist you use it. You are the professional; you know what works, what doesn't, and what is a PITA and a waste of time; your customer is not qualified to make these decisions.
2. Customers do business with you on YOUR terms. If you do quality work with good materials, you won't have this kind of thing come back to bite you. Customers who respect that aren't going to bust your balls over it. People who do, do not get to be your customers; send them to someone else.
Has anyone noticed its always these cheap, chiseling weasels that insist on cutting corners to pinch a few nickels, yet are the first ones to bitch and badmouth you when their sign doesn't work out or last forever? Think that's a coincidence?
Your problem is not the choosing the wrong materials, it's dealing with the wrong kind of customers.
Seriously, tell this guy to pound sand. Then don't let it happen again.
Posted by Ron Helliar (Member # 398) on :
Double what Cam said. But I wouldn't have said it as politely.
Posted by Brian Diver (Member # 1552) on :
I love it Cam! I think I'll just print out a copy and send it to the rascal. Of course I'm gonna slap myself for taking the job (3 stooges treatment) and then slap him for wanting a freebie replacement.
Oh wise one, I feel like Grasshopper here walking on the rice paper and have learned from my mistakes. In fact I've printed out something yesterday that you wrote about the script to handle time-wasters. Dang Cam you are good! Posted by WILLIAM BETZ (Member # 3732) on :
CHEAP AND FAST, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE. WE DON'T USE THE "C" WORD AROUND HERE, IT'S EITHER FIRST CLASS OR FORGET IT.
Posted by Laura Butler (Member # 1830) on :
quote: "People insist on crap and then are incredulous when they find out it stinks."
I love it Todd.
I agree with the above...17 mos and he is just getting around to telling you about the problem?!
i have been told by an old sign guy that the difference between a good sign and a great sign is 10 ft. Tell him its still a great sign.
[ January 22, 2005, 03:14 PM: Message edited by: Laura Butler ]
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
Ok here is the scenerio - customers 1st objective is the lowest price (hmmm where have we heard this before...) doesn't care what kind of vinyl, etc. 2nd is he wanted it yesterday (hmmm...) ![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)
![[For Your Information]](graemlins/fyi.gif)
![[Applause]](graemlins/applause.gif)