My wonderful husband has bought us an airbrush for Christmas. I have read that Createx paints can be used on vinyl. My question is what types of vinyl will accept this paint? Is there any prep work needed? Should a clearcoat be applied afterwards? Sorry for all the questions but I am having problems finding this info. Any suggestions on what to use or where to find this information would be great.
Thanks Again,
Christy
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
well christy, My method is a bit tedious but using one-shot this is what I came up with with no problems to date.
1) start by lightly scuffing vinyl with a mild scuff pad, wipe with alcohol.
2) apply Ticote which is a binder from Chromatic.
3) after it is dry, make sure you test it by applying masking tape and Ripping it off quickly, if the Ticote does NOT come off you did a good job prepping it.
4) paint as needed and most likely clear after airbrushing
5) DO NOT use frog juice, I have had everything stick but the clear using frog juice, it is too unpredictable when removing the app. tape.
6) use One-shot clear, I use the spead dry clear with success, and always remember to use caution when removing the application tape.
This method works for me every time, with no problems, I have lost many paint jobs on vinyl trying other methods when removing the application tape.
good luck
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
My best results have been with automotive basecoat/clearcoats.
just wipe the cut/unweeded vinyl with any type of wax and silicone remover (actually wiping with laquer thinner works SUPER) and spray away.
BUT only spray the basecoat with the airbrush...the catalized clearcoat WILL render the airbrush useless if not cleaned VERY METICULOUSLY.
Just my 2 cents worth... Posted by Christy Griffith (Member # 4583) on :
Thank you both:)
Are there any good airbrush sites videos or books that you would recommend for a sign artist starting out with an airbrush? I have found that most of the literature only pertains to painting directly on the actual sign/vehicle surface and not on vinyl.
Thanks again,
Christy
Posted by Bill Dirkes (Member # 1000) on :
Hi Christy, Save yourself a bunch of hassles and go to your nearest screenprinting supply house. Buy some gloss vinyl screen ink, some reducer, and extender. This is the stuff made to print on vinyl, it will dry to become the vinyl. No worries about adhesion failure, doesn't need a clear coat, and sprays like a dream. I use Summit Inks made by Sericol, 1-800-255-4562. NazDar makes good stuff too. (9700 series, I think)
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
I'm with Bill...been doing it for years and never had a failure. No muss no, fuss, no special recipes or special prep...just blow and go!
Be sure to vent the area you're spraying in.
[ December 19, 2004, 11:19 AM: Message edited by: Monte Jumper ]
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
I'll third the vinyl ink and second the auto basecoats, both methods work extremely well.
Bob,you go to waaaaaay to much trouble just to be able to use One Shot, which when thinned to airbrush consistancy , is much less durable than the other two methods.
Posted by R T Thomas (Member # 355) on :
I am of the vinyl ink category:) I do use acrylics once in a great while to paint vinyl but have found that they aren't as stable UV wise and abrasive wise. When I use Createx, Aqua Flow, etc, I do similar to Bob in preparation. I don't use the adhesion promter, but I do scuff, wipe with alcohol, paint and then cleacoat. I use a heat gun to heat set the paints as I go including the Frog Juice or One Shot clear. I can't say I've NEVER had a failure, but I'never had one on a job other than a test job. That I immediately stored in the "Don't Do It Folder".
Vinyl inks are definitely the way to but make sure you have the proper place to do it and ventilation on hand. That STUFF STINKS!!
[ December 19, 2004, 12:32 PM: Message edited by: R T Thomas ]
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
George,
For me anyway I usually have any color I desire in my cabinet for the asking, so to go and buy screen ink or even automotive paints I'd have to leave the shop and purchase more paint than I usually am going to need. I also have the ventilation issue. I have always been home based, and even though my new shop is seperate from the house, ventilation is not a solved problem. I have worked with screen inks before and it does appear to be a better solution but with all the above elements considered. One-shot just seems to be more convenient for my shop.
As far as durability I haven't noticed an issue as of yet, and seeing as digital printing is so the norm now, I am doing less and less jobs with my airbrush anyway
Heck I even have heard of great results from krylon from some, I've never tried that one yet
[ December 19, 2004, 01:15 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
Posted by George Perkins (Member # 156) on :
The ventilation problem can be a killer, especially with the vinyl, that stuff smells to high heaven.I learned long ago, to use it at the end of the day and throw away EVERYTING that was used on the job, open paint containers, rags whatever or the smell would be with you for weeks. I've had about five colors of vinyl ink for almost twenty years that I'm able to mix any color I need. At the rate they last they will be around for another hundred.The durability and adhesion can't be matched. Krylon is another option, although the Fusion colors are a little limited.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Another vote for the screen inks here.
No special prep, no fuss. Thin, spray, run lacquer thinner through the airbrush, and be done with it and ready to apply in minutes... not to forget the ink is made specifically for the vinyl material. You can't beat it.
I use Nazdar GV inks, mostly white. If I need another color in a pinch I take a 3/4oz airbrush jar to a local screenprinter and get some Nazdar 9700 or 9600 (forget which it is they use).
I also use R/C car paint. That stuff is designed to stick to lexan and other plastics. They have all kinds of really cool colors available, including some House of Kolor colors if your local hobby shop carries a wide selection.
Posted by Christy Griffith (Member # 4583) on :
Wow, You Guys are great! I knew I could count on some answers here.
I know the sign trend is moving more towards the digital printing but being a small home based shop I am excited to expand in this area.
Thanks again for all the help and Happy Holidays!!
Christy
Posted by Christy Griffith (Member # 4583) on :
oops...
One last question. Is there any particular Vinyl that works better than others? I would like to use what I have in stock but I want to do this right.
Thanks again!
Posted by Harris Kohen (Member # 2139) on :
try the kind with adhesive on the back. it sticks better.
actually check out the how to's on this site and you will find some information about airbrushing vinyl
Posted by Christy Griffith (Member # 4583) on :
Harris,
I have checked out the "step by step" section and have also done a search on airbrushing vinyl on this site looking for more info. I have only found one suggestion for types of vinyl suitable for airbrushing and it was very unspecific. If you know of any links in particular please share.
Thanks.
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
Check out Krylons Fusion Paint, it comes in a spray can. in various Colors, all you have to do is spray what you want in a color cup, and airbrush away, sticks like crazy to vinyl, it says so right on the can. I tested it on some vinyl and it works great, with no hassle.
Now its does'nt say that it "Sticks like crazy to Vinyl" but you know what I mean.
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
Christy...Nazdar Vinyl (silkscreen inks) is what everyone is using ...it will take considerable thinning...use their thinner or do as most do thin it with lacquer thinner.
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
I agree that Screen ink works, but do try the Krylon Fusion Spray Bombs, it will save you a ton of money and Headaches, at least buy a $5.00 can of white and try it, that's what I did... now if you have screen inks on hand, then by all means go with those.
Posted by Del Badry (Member # 114) on :
I like the vinyl inks, SEM paints used by the autobody industry are real good too.... made to paint vinyl parts like bumpers, roofs,etc..
Have always had some inconsistency in adhesion with krylon...
Posted by Christy Griffith (Member # 4583) on :
Using the screen inks is probably the way I will go. 5 have some good friends who own a screenprinting embroidery shop so I won't put me out to at least try it.
Cany you spray these inks on any vinyl (glossy, premium, matte or intermediate) or do you need to stick with a certain type?
Thank You for all your help. You guys are truely great!
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
Del, have you tried the "New" "Fusion" Brand... it's new this year, and it's been formulated to work on plastics and Vinyl... I agree with you a couple of years ago they changed the formula and they had a couple of different brands on the go, but this new "Fusion" is worth a look.. Just trying to help.
Posted by Bill Dirkes (Member # 1000) on :
Christy, I only have experience with high performance vinyl, but the screen ink should weld to any vinyl. I use a 50/50 mix of reducer & retarder to thin the ink keep it wet in the cup and air brush. A gallon of screen wash out will run you about $8 and is great for cleaning the air brush. Always put on the respirator, even for a small job. None of this stuff is lung healthy, I think I'll have a cigar now.
Posted by Del Badry (Member # 114) on :
Yes, Neil, i did try the fusion once and found the same thing...... had the white......
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
There seems to be no easy answer to this.
One Shot thinned to airbrush consistency looses some longevity.
Screen inks stink to high heaven and are expensive because they only sell it in quarts.
Auto base / clear is expensive and very dangerous because of the isocyanates.
Auto Air needs a clear coat and is only as good as the clear you use.
I tried to buy some screen ink from a shirt screen printer. Seems they are all going to soy based heat cure inks. These will stick to nothing unless heat cured. I'm using base clear now but it's a pain as it takes longer to clean the gun than to spray the clear, and even with ventilation, it stinks up the shop. I wish there was an easy answer to this problem.
Posted by Jim Upchurch (Member # 209) on :
Dave,
I airbrush vinyl screening inks too but I also screen with them. A respirator is mandatory or you will be trying to figure out how to use your car keys by the end of the day. I would find a local guy and see if you could buy or trade a basic set of colors. It would be a worthwhile investment if you had to get quarts from a supplier though.
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
So....the Createx stuff isn't that great? Just wondering because I bought several of them and the how to video when I bought my air brush.
Posted by Christy Griffith (Member # 4583) on :
Hmmm...
I had forgotten about the heat curing of the screenprinting inks:( How are you guys getting around this?
From what I remember the only way to cure this ink was through an oven.
Just when I thought that I had found an easy solution:(
Posted by Jim Upchurch (Member # 209) on :
Christy, you're thinking about UV inks like Plastisol. That's for fabrics, solvent based inks air dry. The vinyl stuff dries real fast.
Posted by Jane Diaz (Member # 595) on :
We use House of Color Urethane all the time and it sticks like iron!
Posted by Christy Griffith (Member # 4583) on :
Jim,
You are right, I was thinking fabric inks. Probably why I couldn't figure out why everyone was complaining about the odors. The UV inks aren't that unpleasant.
Guess I will have to find a different screenprinter:)
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
I never knew iron stuck to stuff.
Yes the solvent based screenprinting inks air dry within minutes for most, for me they dry in seconds because of being in the desert.
A quart yields at least 3/4gallon or 1 gallon of sprayable ink, maybe even more depending how thin you like it.
Posted by Christy Griffith (Member # 4583) on :
Dave,
I was able to get my hands on some Auto Air and went back through these posts. You say Auto Air paint is only as good as the clearcoat you use over it. What clear have you had the best luck with? The worst?
Thanks!
Posted by Dave Sherby (Member # 698) on :
Here's my experience with Auto Air. Years ago I bought alot of colors. I had very good success with spraying it as long as I used an airbrush with the right sized needle. (BIG) I scuffed the vinyl, cleaned it good, added their catalist and bond all and dried it with a hair drier as directed. Never had it pull away from the vinyl. I usually cleared it with Frog Juice. Many jobs held up great. Some faded badly in about 3 years. I still have some of that paint but it has thickened some and pretty much only use it for interior work.
Now after attending Mike Meyer's Winter Muster, I discovered that Auto Air has been GREATLY improved since I last bought it. So I'm trying it again, mainly thier transparent colors for spraying on chrome vinyl, and clearing with One Shot single stage clear.
Auto air is being used by custom body shops and then cleared with a normal urethane clear like Sikkens or PPG. It's just a slightly different process.
I say Auto Air is only going to be as good as the clear you use because you probably shouldn't expect more than 3 to 5 years with FG or One Shot clear. Automotive two stage clears on the other hand should protect the color for the life of the vinyl.
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