I am doing 2 38' banners for a dance studio for the local christmas parade. One very long trailer the local John Deere retailer is lending (and for 3 years now, lent) to the studio free of charge. Great Spitit. After doing several designs with trees, packages, snowflakes and such, and adding Merry Christmas on the end of the banners, the customer decided to only do studio name, tag line and snowflakes. She "didn't want to offend anyone with Merry Christmas". On the banner on a Christmas Parade float!!! I told her I was an equal opportunity offender, especially when it come to putting Merry Christmas on a Christmas float! Now, I've known her for years and she laughed and repeated her concerns. I'm dumbfounded, IT IS A CHRISTMAS PARADE!
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
There was a debate in another forum a few years back about the polital correctness of that term when sending cards at the end of the year. The fact is 96-98% of all american celebrate it, yet that 2-4% are being appeased. One thing is most likley the commercialization of it, and it turns people off when you put the 2 together. I'm part of that 2-4% but personally not offended by it, go figure.
Posted by Nevman (Member # 332) on :
How about "Happy Holidays"?
Posted by Stevo Chartrand (Member # 2094) on :
Merrrrrrryy Everyone! Posted by Tasmus (Member # 445) on :
If there is nothing to CHRIST....then why all the controversy? Posted by Michael Latham (Member # 4477) on :
Happy Holidays is a wonderful phrase. Unfortunatly it is not called the "Happy Holiday Parade", it is the "Colonial Heights Christmas Parade"!
Posted by Ryan Ursta (Member # 1738) on :
Merryhappychristmahaunikwanza.
Posted by Bob Stephens (Member # 858) on :
Merry Xmas solves the technial problem yet its still clear as to what you mean.
I prefer $$$Merry Christmas$$$
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
I've been listening to this subject in the news lately . . .
Curious how many of the so-called 'tolerant' people are afraid that usin' 'Christmas' is offensive to ALL the other religions and tenets, yet they have no concern for offending anyone who's Christian, by trying to make this word go away . . .
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
How about Festivus?
Posted by Rovelle W. Gratz (Member # 4404) on :
Seems its OK to offend the majority, not the minority.
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
I think that Season's Greetings would be appropriate. Or Happy Holidays. It covers all the bases. A few years back, the city of Pittsburgh created "Sparkle Season" instead of calling it the Holiday Season or whatever. It seemed to anger everyone, Christians and Jews and non-religious as well.
But if the lady just wants her business name on it, go for it. She's the one who's buying the banners, right? She might be an atheist who just wants cheap advertising and is using the Christmas parade for that purpose.
Use her $$ to buy LOTS of gifts! Love....Jill
Posted by Jim Upchurch (Member # 209) on :
Christians stole the holiday fair and square from the pagans. Now they're just fighting to get it back. That being said the church and state issue has been demagogued to absurd proportions. It took a foreigner to put the Christmas back in the California governor's mansion. What a country.
Posted by Mike Milos (Member # 4743) on :
I put a pic of Santa Claus on a 8' x 35' banner That I donated to our City "Festical of Lights". It dosen't say christmas or anything just Festival and the dates. The city wants me to repaint it or they say they may have to take it down, because of the grief it is causing with several groups. I told them I would repaint Santa, but would charge them $700.00 for it.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
I wish everyone a very Merry CHRISTmas and a very happy new year....
[ December 06, 2004, 07:02 PM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
When I was an acolyte, the priest at that time encouraged us to spell it christmass because he thought it would help people to remember that the word is made up of the word Christ... & the word mass.
As for the isue of eliminating Merry Christmas from a banner.. if a business decides to do that based on a percieved offensiveness... then I do not for a minute rush to judgement of the alleged athiests or other non-christians... obviously the isue is that Michaels client puts their Christmas Sales projections ahead of their proclaimation of their faith!
Right? (not that there is anything wrong with that.. but see it, & call it for what it is.
It's not like they are avoiding "offensiveness" for the sake of protecting the "victim" is it?
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
...not to change the subject, but while I'm thinking of it... you know how you can set the sped for double-clicking on your computer?
Well, ever since I got this laptop... EVERY pair of double leters I've typed ends up mising one leter, (like isue)
is there a seting for that? it's realy geting anoying Posted by Kimberly Zanetti (Member # 2546) on :
Doug, I just IM'd you...Control Panel and then MOUSE settings...
Posted by Michael Latham (Member # 4477) on :
Now Doug may have hit the nail on the head!
She's very wonderful person but the bottom line in a small town is the bottom line, don't offend anyone.
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
Tasmus, you said earlier, "Is there nothing to Christ? Then why all the controversy?" You are right. I am a christian, & I can generically talk about God to to people, but mention the name "Jesus", & they get really mad. (I do not push my faith on other people, but I do have a lot of customers who have been here that I have ended up praying for, & some ask me questions.) But anyway, when I am out in the world, I hear ALL kinds of really offensive things people say, & sometimes I feel like saying, now that you have dumped your garbage in my ear, may I talk about something I like to talk about? My point is, I feel sometimes WE are the ones being attacked, not the "politically correct". I mean, come on, these people are trying to take the word God out of EVERYthing, the way it has always been, & it never hurt anyone before! What are they afraid of? I don't push my views on people, but they are pushing their views on everyone in this country. I have heard so many stories about grade schoolers not being able to sing the words, "Christ" or "Jesus" on their Christmas choirs!!! When does it stop? They talk about tolerance, but THEY are not being tolerant. It is really sad. I hope I have not offended anyone!
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
whew! I was hoping I didn't end up offending anyone (yet )with that opinion, but it does seem to be the crux of the biscuit IMO, & as a small business man in a small community, I totally appreciate that concern. My religion is no ones business anyway, so I see no reason to risk alienation with my market (...now all you folks... well, thats another story )
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Bobbie, I may have misunderstood, but are you saying that the asking to keep religion off of banners, or out of schools (or off letterville ) is percieved to be the forcing of an opinion?
I agree that the people that want to spew the devils word, should be shut down even quicker, or there comments should be reciprocated by shedding the light.
But to question the forcing of an "opinion" that topics should be avoided seems a little different.
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
Being offended by reading the words Merry Christmas,Happy Easter,Hannukah or any of those has zero to do with religion/religious beliefs and everything to do with being a self important as* who believes that for some reason the world needs to stop what its doing while it revolves around you and personally accomodate your selfish, self-centered idiocy. Theres nothing philisophical about it,it's called adults being spoiled f'n brats who always think they should have their way and are entitled to their way at the expense of absolutely everyone else.......and will let nothing stop them from displaying less maturity about the issue than the children any of these holidays should be about. Simple solution....not your holiday, dont celebrate it....no different than not eating head cheese if you dont like it. Next we're gonna have to rename the days of the week because some idiot takes offense to the word wensday
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
Oh, my, Doug, I am so sorry! No, I totally understand why keeping topics like religion, politics, etc., off the bullboard is a good idea. I think you misunderstood me! Or maybe I am misunderstanding you? I only made that post referring to the politically correct people that nit-pick over things that our country has done for years. They keep saying that these things offend them, & like Sheila had mentioned, they don't worry about offending the ones they want to stop with the inclusion of these "words" on certain holidays. See what I mean? Also, PLEASE understand, I am not a STUFFY JUDGEMENTAL christian! I don't hide myself "in my own little world". I go to parties that my non-christian friends & family have, & I have a good time with everyone else, I just don't wake up hung over anymore, like I used to, for years! As to my comment on people dumping their garbage in my ears, I was referring to the people that PURPOSELY do it to offend. Some people do that, to get a rise out of you, you know? Did I answer your questions? I hope so, I really hope I didn't make anyone upset or anything. I guess I wish all people would just get along, no matter what their views are, or beliefs. It makes life a lot better!
Posted by Stevo Chartrand (Member # 2094) on :
Break out the aluminum pole everyone!
Its FESTIVUS!
Let's start out with the airing of grievances, and then on to the feats of strength!
Stevo
[ December 06, 2004, 09:25 PM: Message edited by: Stevo Chartrand ]
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
Hey Steve thats what I'm talking about, and I have a few bones to pick with y'all. Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
I take offense to the term festivus! Reminds me of Uncle Fester. In fact it sounds like a cross between Fester and puss. (u pronounced as in 'us'). Neither fester nor puss are things I want to celebrate. Although, there are 1 or 2 people I would wish both on.
Course, I guess I could put aside my own personal beliefs and get in on the festivities with everyone else... Happy Festivus! Break out the antibiotics!
Personal: I send out Christmas card. Business: I send out "happy holidays" cards. To me, "Happy Holidays" has always seemed more professional than Merry Christmas.
[ December 06, 2004, 09:50 PM: Message edited by: Kissymatina ]
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
Just give me an excuse to have a day off. I don't care if its called Christmas, Halloween, EAster, Passover, Ramadan. Just like the controversy over the MLK b'day back in the early 80's. I was glad. It meant another day off..
Just give me a day off and leave the moaning to sex, and the complaining to the @ssholes...
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
I hate to say it...but I always chuck business related "Holiday" cards almost as soon as they're opened.
You know, the ones from the insurance guy, the car dealer, etc. Especially the "Happy Holiday" cards with preprinted names.....they might be better off sending me a coupon for $3 off at Pizza Hut.
At least it shows they were really thinking about me. I'm pretty sensitive, don't you think?
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
Last place I worked at, vendors sent Starbuck Giftcards, around 10 gift baskets, 5 or so boxes of Chocolates and one plave always sent Baklava....it was good.... Then we would have a "worst" card design contest with catagories like "Insincerest" "Cheesiest", you would be suprised how ugly world class architects holiday cards can be.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
no apology needed Bobbie... not by a long shot. I too am all for people getting along, & as my own blunt style around here shows... I think being our true selves AND getting along is preferable to homogonizing everyones views just to fit in. Therefore, I would never be one to request, promote, or support censoring honest expression. (Of course the theory sounds good to me until tested with extremes like Nazi skinheads, or other confrontational forms of expression)
I probably should have left out the inclusion of the BB in my examples of where religious expression is discouraged, & I see how that made it seem that I misunderstood your point, & I may have, but not about that.
I get that you refer to other arenas besides this board. I just thought that in many other arenas where folks want to curtail "things that our country has done for years"... it may be for the similar objective of striving to see all people getting along.
In other words... I don't agree that children should be deprived of christian lyrics in Christmas music BUT, I also don't agree that if they are deprived of this... the imposing of limits on one viewpoint constitutes a hypocritical imposition of another viewpoint.
Graffitti may sometimes look better then white paint, but... ...a time & place for everything I guess Posted by Rovelle W. Gratz (Member # 4404) on :
MLK didn't make another day off. They just lumped two presidents into one Holiday and gave him the other. Not to cause a stir, just to state a fact.
How about "Have good days off during the period of time around the Solstice". To say Joyous, may have a Religious connotation.
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Gavin & Kissy....Between the Head Cheese and festering puss, I think I'm gonna be sick! It's amazing how far from Christmas those things are!!!! But funny too. BTW, just WHAT is in Head Cheese? It sure ain't cheese. And where does the aluminim pole come in? Curious minds want to know. Love....Jill
Posted by John Deaton III (Member # 925) on :
I had these printed up to send to my customers this years. If it offends any of them, tough turd. ITs a shame that such a small percentage of morons are able to force their opinion on everyone else. What are we gonna say? Merry Mas? Crap.
[ December 07, 2004, 09:54 AM: Message edited by: John Deaton III ]
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
Wow, John, that is an awesome card!
And Doug, your blunt style is fine with me! I have read some of your posts, & I have a lot of friends that are like you! As for the skinhead comment, I laughed & I do have to agree!
You know, when I was a gradeschooler, there were a few kids who were not allowed to make Santa Claus's, Easter Bunny's, etc., because their parents did not allow, & we felt bad for them. The whole time we were making Santa's & Easter Bunny's in school, these poor kids were making "people" out of construction paper. But their parents weren't sueing the school. I think people should be respected for their choice NOT to participate in whatever holiday, also. Why can't we all just get along? Life is too short.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jillbeans: And where does the aluminim pole come in? Curious minds want to know. Love....Jill
Not a devout Seinfeld fan, eh? A bare aluminum pole is erected, but not decorated, in protest of the usual decorated Christmas tree.
Wow! I didn't mean all this fuss, I just found it interesting it is still called the Christlmas Parade and we can't feel comfortable saying Merry Christmas.
No judgements, no getting anyone upset, just found it sad.
Posted by Michael Clanton (Member # 2419) on :
John Deaton III Don't you think that you could be offending people who prefer other makes and models of trucks, or those who don't believe in trucks and therefore don't want to have images of trucks pushed down their throats. What about people who have different COLORS of trucks, clearly you are demonstrating that BLUE trucks are the only TRUE trucks! (mine BTW is a red 92 Mazda, just in case you feel the urge to customize a card.)
That's all the world needs is a politicly incorrect card portraying a Blue truck with Balls (ornaments, I mean)
Cool card!
"BAAAAH- HUMMMBAGGG"
Posted by Tony Vickio (Member # 2265) on :
Nice card John!! Michael, I would have told her it says Merry Christmas or I'm not doing it! Look around, this country is going straight to hell! It is time to stand up for things like this. To me it is Merry Christmas and nobody is going to tell me it is some other idiodic thing. So..........MERRY CHRISTMAS to all my fellow Letterheads! and yup, I know Santa is ot there!
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
quote:Originally posted by Tony Vickio: ...and yup, I know Santa is ot there!
Tony... I admire that you are another one always willing to speak your mind, so you gotta clear this up for me..
Is "Santa OT" as in Off Topic?
...or do we have a typo to contend with, in which case...
is "Santa out there"? (like Mulder & Scully's "truth is out there")
..or is "Santa Not there"? (say it isn't so)
Posted by Tony Vickio (Member # 2265) on :
Doug, I left out the "u"! Yes, X Files was my favorite show! The truth is "out" there!
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Next, they will want to abolish "Happy Holidays".......holidays comes from "holy" days.
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
I thought about it after my earlier post, trying to figure out just why I've always felt "happy holidays" is more professional. Whether I choose to celebrate Christmas, Hannukah, Yule, Festivus, Santa-mania or whatever holiday is a personal choice, based on my personal beliefs.
Other than a select few customers, there is an intentional line between my personal life & professional life. My personal beliefs, be it political, religious, etc. are none of my customer's business. I also make certain my tattoo is always covered when seeing customers, not because of appearances or because tattoos may offend some, but because the tattoo itself is very personal to me (it was designed after loosing my grandpap).
As for not wanting to have the word "Christmas" on a banner, I can see that. But that banner being for a CHRISTMAS parade...wtf? Why would people who are against Christmas or celebrate other holidays go to a Christmas parade? Posted by Tony Vickio (Member # 2265) on :
OOPs posted twice
[ December 07, 2004, 12:27 PM: Message edited by: Tony Vickio ]
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
Kissy, I have a tattoo on each arm, the one I have had for years, & the one is very big. I was concerned about it offending my customers, then I thought, well, most of my work is word of mouth, & I have been very busy, busier each year. I have become friends with a quite a few of my customers, & I find that they are not offended at all! Actually, the one is a tattoo of Jesus reaching over a cliff for the lost sheep, & my son did it. Most of my customers like it, & the ones that do not, like my work, & that is why they hire me & come back. Some of my customers prefer magnets on their vehicles so they won't lose customers by being seen parked at a bar. I would still hire them, myself, if I needed their services & saw them at a bar. I hire someone because I like their work. People get offended way too easily. Hey, I would like to see your tattoo, I'll bet it is nice.
Posted by Lotti Prokott (Member # 2684) on :
It's a tradition in our community for the businesses to put an ad in the "Holiday Edition" newspaper. I'm making a point every year to design my own with the very purpose of making it CHRISTmas Greetings.There is nothing more stupid than the word "Festivus", if you can't handle Christmas or any other religious holiday, fine, don't celebrate with those who want it, what seems to be the problem? Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
It also seems that a few years back, people were nicer during this peroid, now they are just paranoid, more power to Deaton and my exact thoughts, tough turd if the overly sensitive have a fit, makes you wonder what will be next. If your rights aren't protected, then mine will be next.....you would think one thing could be left alone.
Posted by Tony Vickio (Member # 2265) on :
quote: if you can't handle Christmas or any other religious holiday, fine, don't celebrate with those who want it, what seems to be the problem?
Lotti, good post, what you said IS the problem. These "terrorists" don't want to celebrate certain things, thats fine. But on the same hand, they don't want us to celebrate it! Thats not going to happen. We can't let this minority group keep stealing things that belong to all!
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
OK! What percentage of the real world is offended by the word"Christmas"??
Jews, Moslems, Budhists, and just about every religon will accept it!
There are a few atheists who are making all the 'noise". So what will you lose, as a bisiness, from these people? 5%? Who cares, they are usually a PITA, and I would kick them out anyhow!
I am far from religous, but this crap just pi$$es me off!
[ December 07, 2004, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I guess I'm a bit of a minority here (what else is new) ..NO, I don't mean I'm one of them who is offended, or wants to censor... I mean I must be a minority in regards to being exposed to this issue so much. So many replies here seem to be fueled by the similar encounters others have had with this, but I have never encountered it.
So to me I only know of the banner for the parade, & what little other specifics have been identified in other replies. So is it Christian business owners being a bit of a Judas in the marketplace in hopes of reaching a larger market... or is it the atheists (+/or other non-Christians) really trying to force putting a damper on Holyday cheer?
Posted by Bobbie Rochow (Member # 3341) on :
Doug, I personally have not recieved any orders up here in my small community for anything saying Merry Christmas, if that is what you mean. I think that most people, christian & non christian alike are so used to the holiday phrases we have heard all our lives, that it seems so ridiculous that all of a sudden some get offended & actually make a stink about it, & want it changed. I get my information from what I have been hearing in the news lately.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Doug....it's the latter. I don't think anyone is thinking they will garner more business by using "Christmas" after "Merry".
It's the bitter atheists trying to stick it to otherwise jolly folks.
The lawyers have ruined everything.....there was a day when we could march down a street as a mob and "educate" troublemakers like that....
"Honey?! Where's my pitchfork?!"
Posted by John Largent (Member # 4606) on :
Political Correctness at best is the worst! Generally speaking, it is a viewpoint created by a small minority of people who seem to be managing to dictate to the majority.
Anytime an opinion is offered in straight understandable English, "Someone" is likely to be offended . . if their skin is thin enough . . . Get over it! A ""Redskin" is just that . . So what? And that goes pretty much for the Atheiests, Agnostics and just plain Ignorant among us who decry "Christmas", Columbus Day, Martin Luther King Day and all the others!
Of course, the Idea of "Political Correctness" grew from the same instutions that pay $98k for four letters in a common font! Educated idiots!
Posted by Jeremy Vecoli (Member # 2278) on :
As a hard-core Atheist who enjoys Christmas, I have NO problem with any business or individual doing Christmas stuff. In fact, I actually like painting holiday and religious-themed signs. Go figure!
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