Throughout the last few days, I have talked to my share of “Letterheads”, Somewhere along the way some new things occurred to me with regard to the somewhat ongoing issue of should you (pay dues / taxes) to be apart of Letterville. I have in the past spoke / preached about my views with regard to that.
So here's the age old “it’s been said before but I’ll say it again” for the newbies here. The fact that you can lurk and learn here for free all you want or register and participate for free has always been a little mind boggling to me. I’m not the first to say that what you get day to day from this place alone makes it well worth the $50. Then you add the extras ya get for becoming a resident. I for one have never understood why anyone would not pay up. I’ve heard some of the thoughts and excuses and although a few are legit I think most are lame.
Now that I’ve highly irritated some of you I’ll get to my most recent thoughts on the issue. (I’ve been typing issue a lot lately...apparently I have too many issues...hahaha...there I go again.)
Sorry...it’s late
Again with my recent discussions with some other “heads” during the vinyl thing (not issue) it occurred to me, how would that have went down without Letterville?
I think many product suppliers and manufacturers have become aware of and pay attention to this site. As I stated in one of the other threads...this is one of the best “tools” we have at our disposal. You’re hard pressed to beat unity when it comes to power. Why do you think unions were formed?
Now to my point:
Barb and Steve have put a ton into this and from what I understand it’s not the most lucrative venture there is out there. I believe on more than one occasion they have chosen to let a paying merchant/advertiser leave rather than let them try to dictate what we as letterheads openly discuss here.
Think for a minute what this place would be like if it were censored by some of the suppliers and or manufacturers of the products we use.
That thought together with the obvious and unknown costs to keep this site going made me think. What if because not enough people think it’s needed or worthy enough to pay to be here, Barb and Steve had to start letting them dictate because they couldn’t afford to let them go? What if they had to sort of "sellout" to a site sponsor to keep this going? What would this place be like then?
To be able to have a forum where you can come and jointly discuss things, solve problems, and learn so much is actually unbelievable not to mention meet so many people or make friends.
I’m asking you to PLEASE consider what could happen if more of us don’t financially support this site.
For those of you that try to over analyze things and think I’m politicking for Barb and Steve or think I stand to gain from this post. Think again...First I barely know them and because I personally think this site had a lot, if not everything to do with moving forward to resolve the “vinyl thing” I just don’t want to think of someday losing the "free speach" option here.
Sincerely,
Jeff
[ November 11, 2004, 03:39 AM: Message edited by: Jeff Spradling ]
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
hey... I just noticed you have a bunch of vinyl rolls behind your head!
Sorry, it is late!
YES! very good points Jeff.
...but remember, many who are visitors now... may have been residents for years & years before Jeff or I even got here FWIW.
...AND I always like to point out that as much as a small $50 check helps this place survive... many of the regulars who may currently be "visitors" are also prolific contributors of valuable information & that plays a large part of creating the value of this place that draws other participents in to pay for that information... and of course the accumulation of all those new members is part of what creates the value that draws in merchants to pay for that exposure.
So, just something else to think about... there are many visitors here whoose contributions far exceed writing a measly $50 check. Posted by Pam Eddy (Member # 1858) on :
Yes, what Jeff said.
This site is of great value and worth the investment to make sure it keeps going. You can buy books and magazines, but you are only going to hear what the author or editor WANT YOU TO HERE.
At this site, you are going to hear it all, whether you like it or not. And sometimes we need to hear what we don't want to hear and deal with it.
Pam
[ November 11, 2004, 05:31 AM: Message edited by: Pam Eddy ]
Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :
I have been on both sides of this issue. I've supported Lettervile as a resident in the past and would do so again when some changes are made.
Because of lukers, we have and continue to get threating phone calls from the "Lettervile" terrorist." I stopped posting for 6 months. Then after posting that picture of the "Cargill" sign that had broken, the threatening phone calls started again.
Disagreeing with opinions is one thing and venting off some anger is another, but threating family members with phone calls is way over the line.
Stop this person(s) and these assults by making this forum a member's only forum, and let the lukers and terriorst have the rest of the site. Then I will become a resident again.
[ November 11, 2004, 07:43 AM: Message edited by: Dave Draper ]
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
Dave,
Call this loser out on the carpet and let the world know who it is. I am certain that Barb and Steve have no means at their disposal to stop this "terrorist". The Shortreeds have no way of controlling individuals and their actions. Several people have been banned from this site. That is the limit of their control. It doesn't mean that they can stop them from reading it.
I have gotten e-mails that ranged from stupid remarks to outright threats of "kicking my ass up to my teeth." Funny how those e-mails seem to come from Yahoo or Hotmail mailboxes that are set up just for the purpose of harrassment making it virtually untraceable for the everyday, run-of-the-mill internet surfer.
I called one person and let him know in no uncertain terms that if I ever got an e-mail like those again and found out who it was, someone was going to be very unhappy. I recognized the writing style. While he denied doing it (most cowards deny everything) that string of mail stopped.
I have also forwarded stuff to my ISP and let them deal with it. That is part of their job. The phone is an entirely different matter. You can call the FBI and set the long arm of John Law after them for that. I suggest you do that and press charges.
Bullies will continue to "pound" on someone until they get a triple dose of their own crap. It is time to open up that can of Whoop Ass you have stashed in the back room for just such an emergency.
Why in the world are going to let this bonehead keep you from re-upping as a resident? Sounds more like an excuse than a reason.
Now go do the right thing...
Posted by Laura Butler (Member # 1830) on :
Dave, If you know who this person is, can't you turn them into the police? There is no need for that.
I know how it feels to be threatened as I was stalked for months once. This was 23 years ago and I was much younger but it changes the whole way you go thru the day and night. You never know when that person willl be outside of your door day and night or if you can go shopping without running into this person. This was more annoying than scarey. I knew this man and would get so angry that he wouldn't leave me alone.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
WOW
This is deep! I have been a resident from day one, and have always felt the $50 was well worth the benefits. I do feel somewhat that while the residents get to take advantage of resident drawings, I feel that people who don't pony up the dough should not get the same advantages as residents do.
I als know this decision is basically up to the Shortreeds. Barb was telling me of some proposed upgrades when we attended the Looney meet last month. I had no idea what it costs to maintain this site. Why residency is not required, is a mystery to me. Call it generosity, call it a desire to share, I don't know.
As for Dave's dilema, residency could possibly solve this problem. Or maybe, only residents could have access to our personal information. That conduct is uncalled for! I recently had someone attempt to use me to give out personal info of a fellow head. They posed as a potential out of town customer.
I think Dave, Bruce, and Jeff make some points worth purusing. I have no problem going to an all Resident forum. After all, we post personal info, pictures, and numbers for all to see. The "visitors" have the best of both worlds. We expose ourselves as we are....they do not.
Rick
Posted by Greg McRoberts (Member # 3501) on :
Paid my dues two weeks ago. That's the best 50 bucks I'll spend on my business this year .
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
I have been a resident for years. Point blank, it's just WORTH IT.
Many people don't realize that this is Barb-n-Steve's sole income. We come here on a daily basis and glean invaluable info and help.
While I do think that maybe profile access should only be available to residents, I doubt that it would keep the creepies away. And I can't dictate how a site should be run.
Dave, I feel bad for you that some scumbag resorts to terrorist tactics. But I sure as hell would not let that stop me from posting.
Many people pay hundreds of dollars a year in trade magazine subscriptions and books, when Letterville is all right here at our fingertips. I do believe that it has changed the face of the Letterhead movement. I know for sure that it is priceless to me.
Thanks for a timely post, Jeff. Chin up, Dave. Love....Jill
Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :
Bruce, The terriost calls are not an excuse for my no resident status. Its a wait and see decision. If the calls keep coming, then I'm out of here and other boards permanently.
As for tracing the calls, this person is using a phone card purchased at either a Sam's Club or a Wal-Mart. We are consulting with higher powers as to the next steps as this is a criminal issue.
Its never my intent to hurt anyone. Be that as it may, people take offense at comments made or by just posting a picture and deal with the situation impoperly, or criminally.
Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
Can I make a point as a non-resident? How many people have been asked to join?
I've been checking this site daily for a few years now and only one person has ever just asked me to join. Sure, I see all the posts like this but normally I just skip right over them, like most people probably do. It's almost preaching to the choir.
It's the same thing that used to happen back in my fraternity days. We would have 200 - 300 people at a party but only had 25 members. Nobody was joining because nobody was asking them to. We had an elitist attitude and felt that they should come to us and ask to be in and prove their worth, not the other way around. Two years after this was pointed out to us we were at 100 members, all from just personally asking people to join.
I think the same thing would work here. Shoot off a quick email whenever you see a non-resident participating and ask them to join. Short and simple and it just adds a personal element to something people may not have considered.
And my membership? I'm getting residency here for Christmas from my girlfriend who has finally accepted that I'm going to experiment with everything I hear or learn on this site (you should have seen my glue chipping disaster).
Just an idea, shoot me if you will.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
How about a campaign?
Not a discount program, just a push to see how many can become residents before December 1st. The incentive? A MAJOR, HUGE,MASSIVE, AWESOME, PULL OUT ALL THE STOPS, BREAK ALL THE RULES, R E S I D E N T D R A W I N G
Barb, Steve....What do you think?
[ November 11, 2004, 05:08 PM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
Now that is one Christmas gift you WON'T be returning!
As far as my residency is concerned, I pony up because I glean more info than almost all my subscriptions combined. Hey, how else do you become a know-it-all?
Heck, the entertainment factor of everyone here alone is worth the scratch...
Posted by Jane Diaz (Member # 595) on :
Patrick, glad you are joining "the club" but I think your reference to a fraternity/sorority is a bit flawed. You are invited to join a fraternity. If you aren't asked or invited, you aren't included. It is generally a process where there is a rush (meet & look you over party) and then you are asked (OR NOT) to join. This site is VERY welcoming and includes everyone, I think. I agree with you that it would be nice to be asked, but the other side of that is that some people might feel that they were being harrassed and pressured if we all sent them notes saying join up. Everyone has to make their own decision about joining here, but personally, I feel like my $50 is a small price to pay for what we get here. I'm sure some will choose not send in their $ or throw out all kinds of excuses why they can't, and that's ok too. We all have our priorities and problems in our lives... but I agree with Jeff and the reason for his post. I think Barb & Steve deserve a round of applause for all they provide here. And Patrick, WELCOME to resident status. Posted by R T Thomas (Member # 355) on :
Pat, Why would you let something like that keep you from joining the best sign site on the 'net? Isn't that being a bit silly? Would you not join the health club without a personal invitation? I'm not being mean here, just amazed that you feel the way you do. On the other hand let me be the first to ask you to join Letterville as a friend to a friend. The fact that I don't you or the level of expertise you may have has nothing to do with the fact that this is a great place to live!!
Anyone and everyone is welcome here. The only thing that is asked of us is to participate and refrain from attacking people or posting religious or political threads. That's not many rules in my eyes.
So, join up. We need all the help we can get. Steve and Barb have spent many years and soothed lots of headaches to get this place where it is. $50 is CHEAP!!
See ya, R.T.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Here's a twist on the situation from someone who's a "visitor" here.
Visitors have power on this site. Residents are few and far between, but the visitors are here in large numbers.
If this BB were to go to a "Residents Only" format, I can guarantee you most of the visitors are not going to cough up the money and leave, then the merchants will pick up and take off too because their numbers of advertising impressions through this site will drop like a rock.
I'm only speaking from experience here, having operated BB's in the past and even paying to be a vendor on others.
I've seen it happen countless times. A BB goes to a "Paid Member Only" format and *POOF* 90% of the traffic is gone overnight. Soon the vendors pull out and before you know it the site falls on its face.
The "Paid Avertising" and "Member Donations" business models most BB's use to survive will not yield any profit, and more than likely results in more headaches than maintaining the site is worth.
This is all just part of the gig when you sign up to operate a bulletin board, most people don't stop to think about this stuff before they start.
A better option for Steve and Barb is to sell the products advertised on their site, themselves, if they want the site to generate revenues they can live on and make it worth the effort to keep maintaining it.
Merchants would pay reduced annual dues for the privelidge of showcasing their product here, or Steve and Barb would get deeper discounts on product (maybe Distributor status) making it very profitable for them.
I can guarantee you, with 3,000+ members here, if Steve and Barb had all the products advertised here for sale directly to their users, the users would prefer to buy it here and they would.
They might even be able to work out an affiliate deal with merchants where they don't even have to inventory product, reducing their investment, then settle for percentage of sales that pass through the site.
But what do I know? I'm only speaking from personal experience. Posted by jimmy chatham (Member # 525) on :
i was a resident till my health effected my income and maybe i will be able to pay my taxes again some day so everyone can see my purrty picture again.
Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
I would have become resident long ago if it hadn't been for two things: bad choices and finances. At the time I quit my job to go "full time" five years ago, my wife, three kids and I were living in a 48 foot 1969 model trailer. Yep...trailer trash. We just moved out of it this past spring.
When we got married, I had bought 20 acres of land and then moved a 72 model doublewide onto it...bad choice number one. This was in 1987 and at this time, my wife also quit her job to become a full-time mother/housewife/teacher(She homeschools our kids). I largely paid for the broken down trailer and land by making signs and cabinets on the side while working at a factory. Two kids late r, I got this dumb idea of adding a couple of rooms onto the doublewide to accomodate my growing family. Does this sound like a redneck castle here? That was BIG mistake number two. While doing all this I'm still working at the factory and making signs on the side. Three kids later, I got the bright idea of totally GUTTING the doublewide and turning it into a HOUSE. Major mistake number three. This gets worse.
So, flash forward to 1998. I bought the old '69 model trailer, set it up beside the soon-to-be-gutted doublewide and we moved into our "new" ..."temporary" digs(seemed like an eternity). Then, crowbar in hand, I started demolishing the inside of the doublewide, except for the already added rooms, until there was nothing left but the floor and the truss roof(which i had built over it earlier). Six miserable years later, we finally have a "house" (which we are now living in thankfully) but still no kitchen cabinets. I did sell two cows this summer to buy her a new stove, and a dishwasher.
I have felt like a freeloader the whole time and believe me, I have wanted to become a member for a long time. Letteville has benefited my business in more ways than I could list. But I promised my wife that I would not subscribe to Letterville until she had a house and believe me she has been more patient than you could imagine. The house is now 99% complete but, she needs kitchen cabinets. I do promise that when her cabinets are done (which I will build soon) (at least get the cabinets started) I will pay up before laying the stone on my fireplace or buying a new Washburn b17 banjo....and a new Ovation acoustic electric guitar, and a Gibson mandolin and...and.....
Then everyone will get to see my handsome face
[ November 11, 2004, 01:42 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
Posted by Kimberly Zanetti (Member # 2546) on :
quote: Heck, the entertainment factor of everyone here alone is worth the scratch...
As someone who doesn't produce signs, I readily admit that the reason I come by here several (vast understatement) times a day is primarily to see what you all are up to and say hi. Getting a Good Morning IM from Jill or Si or any of you guys puts a smile on my face.
Another part of it for me is that many of you knew my father and his work. There aren't many non-Letterville people around with whom I can have a conversation or share a memory of him. About a week ago, someone from here emailed me a photo that reminded that person of my father. Yes, it looked very much like him and brought a bittersweet smile to my face. I'm not going to get that someplace else. There's not another place for me to go and post a picture of a god-awful sign and be able to laugh with someone about how bad it is. In a very large sense, having all of you in my present and my future is a link to my past. Is that worth $50 to me - damn right it is.
I hung out here as a Visitor for almost a year. Honestly, I thought that eventually I'd get past the "novelty" of hanging out here but you've sucked me in. I don't feel as if not being a Resident is an option for me. If I'm going to be here and be allowed to contribute then I feel as if I owe it to Steve and Barb to pay my fair share.
I can understand the other side of the story as well however. For a great majority of you, being a signmaker isn't bring in tons of money. There were years when my father made a good living - we'd go on vacations, he put me through private school and a not inexpensive college - and then there were the years when he'd sit up night after night staring out of the window trying to figure out how on earth to pay the mortgage and put food on the table. The last few years, as his health deteriorated, he was barely able to do that. By that time, $50 was a huge amount of money. In order to keep his spirits up, he spend a fair amount of time on the internet. If he had been able to hang out in a place like this I think it would have helped. My point is that if there are others out there who can't afford it and yet still need the camraderie and inspiration provided here, I'd hate to see it unavailable to those who may need it most.
Hell, for most of you, it's even tax-deductible - I don't even have that excuse! Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Mike
You seem like a pretty reasonable guy. If you are paying to be a merchant on other sites, why not pay residency taxes here? You are an active member here and some of your experience and insite has benefited others, myself included. No doubt you have drawn some benefit too. We all were behind you during your shrinkage campaign. Do you think you would get your moneys worth? I would say it is a bargain!
What's 50 bux??? Steve and Barb do a great job and it is a small price to pay.
Wayne & Jimmy
I respect you guys too. Maybe a limited membership could be invented to assist those in a bad position. $50 can seem like a million when money is scarce. Keep your chin up
*My point is that some readily spend money on other sites, while they don't see the value of what is available here.
[ November 11, 2004, 11:23 AM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
quote:Originally posted by Jane Diaz: Patrick, glad you are joining "the club" but I think your reference to a fraternity/sorority is a bit flawed. You are invited to join a fraternity. If you aren't asked or invited, you aren't included. It is generally a process where there is a rush (meet & look you over party) and then you are asked (OR NOT) to join.
Actually, almost all of our parties were open to whoever and whatever showed up, just like this bulletin board. So, call the bulletin board a rush party and then ask (or not) somebody to join.
Not being asked is only a small part of why I never joined, just like being asked is a small part of joining. The fact I was asked by somebody who had helped me on more than one occassion and even called me one day to talk me through a problem got me to thinking about it. Thinking led to realizing the benefits of supporting the site and that's where I am now.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Pat
Exactly!
I have been helped out by more than one member who called me, unsolicited, to assist me. I too have done this for others. Not too many places to find that kind of help. Beats tech support all to heck anyways. Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
I've been a member of Letterville for about a year, but have only become "actively involved" for a few months. I think I answer more questions than I ask, and have 28 years of experience to share with everyone, resident and visitor alike. If a visitor is limited in the access to this site, then it will not be a true picture of Letterville. Why would someone pay to become a member without testing the full service? Maybe Steve and Barb have to establish a time limit on free access!? 6 months seems fair enough to sample the goods. That said, I myself fully intend to become a Resident. Problem is, relocating a business and a life, and starting all over in a new market, have put some priorities ahead of a "mere $50" for residency. I'm sure many of you can appreciate this, and having hung around here long enough, I'm can tell that many of you could care less. I thoroughly enjoy this site and will gladly pony -up, hopefully sooner than later. In the meantime I will post, respond and hopefully contribute to a great site.
The Appalachian Trail system has a motto: "Take out more than you bring in." It refers to garbage, etc. I think that the Letterville mantra is more like: "Give more than you take." In that sense, I think most people here enjoy sharing their knowledge, and rightfully so. There is probably nothing more gratifying than knowing that you can make a difference. If you are tired of answering questions, go on to another topic. Nobody is forced to answer or respond to any other post by any other person, visitor OR resident. Being a resident doesn't make that person any more of an expert, and in many cases the opposite is true. That's my two cents. Now, since I spent THAT, I need just 5,002 cents more, and I can become a resident!
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
This is pretty interesting . . .ALL very good points made . . . . I wonder if stalking, or harrassment is an issue with anyone . . .why would you make your phone number and address so readily avaiable to the world at large?? I'm just askin' . . . .
Gene, I think the 6 months trial thing sounds like a really good idea . . . .are'nt there a whole bunch of other sites that operate on the exact same premise??
Posted by Kimberly Zanetti (Member # 2546) on :
Just a thought...put $1 in a jar everytime you drop by, or a quarter even...see how fast it adds up and then send the $50 to Steve and Barb.
It's also a good Christmas/Hannukah/No reason at all present...adopt a Letterhead...want to help a friend...pay for their residency!
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
quote: Please note that registering here in Letterville does not mean you are an "official" Letterhead. Since Letterheads is a non-organization, official membership is impossible. Each person decides in their own heart if they are a Letterhead. Participation is the key word here. See A History Of Letterheads, to learn more about the Letterhead Movement.
Letterville is our version of an on-line Letterhead Meet. As hosts, we are permitted to conduct this meet in our own way, always using the meets that have gone before us as a guide. There is no registration fee required to use this website. If you like what we are doing here and want to help pay the bills, you might consider becoming a Resident Of Letterville. Taxes are only 50 Dollars US a year and you qualify for monthly draws and other great perks. Thank-You for making Letterville the #1 sign site on the Net.
one page every visitor has been to before they could post here was the registration page Based on the second & third paragraphs quoted above, I would think everyone should consider themselves "invited" to join "if they like what we are doing here"
[ November 11, 2004, 03:58 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
Posted by Jeff Spradling (Member # 1615) on :
To a degree I think some here are missing my point so I'll be a little more blunt.
I'd like to think I have done some worth while contributing here myself but I don't think that should give me a free pass to be here.
There are over 4800 registered members here and I think I've heard there are somewhere between 200 and 250 residents so at the most that's $12,500 a year that we as users contribute yearly.
It's been said that this is Barb and Steve's livelyhood...how many of you can live on $12,500 a year. I know they get money from merchants but the point is if it gets to the point where they have to rely on the merchant’s income more and more...the merchants will have more "say so" as to what we can openly discuss here. THAT'S MY POINT !
I'm not saying members only, although I disagree with the comment that that would kill this site. I wouldn't want anyone to not have a chance to at least visit here to see what a great asset it is. I also know it will never be 100% paid unless that was the rule. But I think there are several that can afford the $50 that just don't. Even if half the registered members paid that would make a tremendous difference.
If you know anything at all about this place...you know it seams as though Barb and Steve put their heart and souls into this place. Imagine what this place would be like if they had most of the active people paying up...I doubt they’d take the money and run.
The thought of Barb and Steve selling products here puts it back on the companies having more "say so"...that’s when I think more people would gladly pay the $50...when their chance to voice their thoughts were taken away. THAT’S MY POINT !
Jeff
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Posted by Barb Schilling (Member # 13) on :
Boy! I haven't been "home" for awhile! This is a thread that repeats itself regularly! (Not complaining, just observing) Actually it is a good reminder that my taxes will be due around the end of January I think. Will Barb Shortreed send me a "tax statement"? Hope so.
I have been both a resident and a visitor over the years since the beginning. My official status has usually related directly to one of 2 things: 1. In the early days - the speed of my internet acess. (thank you cable-broadband) 2. Currently-my available time to participate!
I know I am a bit of a town hermit, but I LOVE THIS TOWN!
BTW, was there an election here at all last week? Who won? Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
The Shortreeds won! very little election-related bad behavior this year, if I say so myself.
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
The tips and little pieces of info that we daily read here & tuck away into our brains for future use is worth more than $50. The value of just the avery issue....finding out there are others experiencing the problem, putting heads together, getting a response from avery...that 1 topic is definately worth $50.
Add all those $50 together and that's why this place is here. I think this avery thing has made a lot of us think about how invaluable this place is. "If it wasn't here..." is something I don't want to think about.
I'm not going into the resident vs. visitor thing again cause that horse has been beaten to death beyond the glue stage. Everyone has their reasons for being a resident or not. The ones that irritate me are the ones who won't become a resident simply because they don't have to, the people who generally spend their lives looking for a free ride, wherever it comes from.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Rick,
I'm not pushing a product here but if I had something that was marketable to the sign industry and there was enough demand for it, I probably would chip in advertising dollars but *I* would actually make a concession that either the owners of the site inventory product and get a roomy discount, or they at least handle the transactions and collect a smaller percentage.
If a website like this one is making money, it's a more valuable advertising medium to me as a vendor because I don't have to worry about owners getting fed up and shutting the place down. Believe me, I've been involved in enough bulletin boards to know the drill, and I no longer advertise with anyone.
Now, why have I not become a resident? It's simple.
I'm cheap, primarily... and I have a simple theory. When a company has intent to subsidize their operations by selling advertising, they need to find a way to make that work, just like everyone else here needs to find a way to make selling signs work for them.
I can't ask for donations so I can upgrade equipment or software, or travel to learn new skills, those are expenses that I have to factor into my pricing structure. My customers would benefit from those things too, does that mean I should hit them up for more money? I mean, I probably could ask for donations but I doubt I'd get many takers!
If people want to donate to help out, hey that's good for them, I won't knock 'em I just don't feel it's up to me to subsidize a business that's already subsidizing itself through advertising. I won't pay for cable/satellite TV or satellite radio either because they're all paid to run commercials (no I dont steal any of these I just live without 'em.)
Just remember, when you start preachin' to people like we're watching a PBS marathon or something, don't be surprised when they change the channel. Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Oh goody...look! A chicken!
Rapid
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Mike...You'd pay for Satellite TV if ya lived here! Posted by Mark Matyjakowski (Member # 294) on :
Holy cow Mike, that's the most long winded load of whooey I've read yet. Averaging around a tousand posts a year, you've been around long enough to know how this site works ... and should be used to the occational "telethon".
I'm with Bruce, in it for the entertaiment factor ... I don't watch much TV ('cept South Park). Things I learn about here and play with in my garage is my main form of entertainment ... and watching all you psycho's bitch about meaningless crap is better than cable and makes me feel sane hahahahaa
Ray, quick, grab that chicken ... I'll go get some sauce, maybe we could make a salad.
Posted by Michael Berry (Member # 2604) on :
Oh boy....here we go again!
Right, wrong or indifferent, it's simply amazing how many folks can't come up with a mere 50 bucks. Most of us **** that away on a weekend.
There are circumstances that I respect. But there are folks that openly are making kits and doing other stuff that surly could afford it. Oh well, there's cheapskates everywhere I guess.
But if a customer tried to get a "deal", just watch them pop a gasket......just depends on what side of the fence you on I suppose.....
Oh, by the way, thanks for the reminder Barb, my tax check is on it's way to you & Steve as we speak.
Posted by J & N Signs (Member # 901) on :
Yeah Mike but can you live without Letterville?... 4144 posts ...in 4 years....hmmmmmm... comes to about 5 cents a post.
quote: I won't pay for cable/satellite TV or satellite radio either because they're all paid to run commercials (no I dont steal any of these I just live without 'em.)
Posted by J & N Signs (Member # 901) on :
30 day trial sounds about right......
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
Hey Ray... I'll grab Magic Man, the chicken, the salad, and we'll be over to watch the curling tap
Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
wtf is up with that anyway???...$50.00 contribution for such a useful source of information and support. i don't understand it myself... if your're posting more than 25 times a month then you are frequent flyer my friend...giddy up.
Posted by dave parr (Member # 3868) on :
No, no, no, NO boy. That ain't no chicken. Now that over there . . . now, that's a Chicken! Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
Funny, it tastes like chicken...
Posted by John Deaton III (Member # 925) on :
Geeze Mike, if you cant afford it, thats one thing, but explaining it the way you did, more or less that The Shortreeds should find other ways to get money from the site, is a cop out. Its either worth it to you or not. To me, its definitely worth it. Heck, the perks alone are worth the 50 bucks.
Posted by John Lennig (Member # 2455) on :
Hey now, we all got to live thru the Great Weight Loss Saga, where you goin' to get a paying audience like that, eh?
Take some of that "dough" you saved in the last couple months, send it on in... hey, about 50 cents a pound, huh?
Just me being serious ha ha
John Lennig / SignRider
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
I gotta wonder why everyone here is more concerned with everyone elses business than with drapers post.....i personally couldnt give 2 craps about who chooses to be a resident or not and why, and neither should anyone else......part of being a cohesive group is policing your own,and as long as some chickensh*t sack of crap is emailing and friggin calling peoples families,having more people sign on while we pretend something like that isnt happening isnt further any cause. The sad thing is that the chickensh#t thats doing it probably runs about a 95% chance of being someone that everyone here has over time put on a pedestal and respects and now feels its his/her duty to be a ball-less,egocentric, 2 faced SOB who comes here,throws praise around to the right people knowing they'll get a corresponding amount in return,then lashes out when they're no longer the center of attention,just doesnt have the balls to do it publicly and has to sneak and do it in pvt....bet money on it. Anyone can join the club so to speak,but just because they joined not everyone belongs there and crap like that proves it....rather than worry about who has what label,worry about peoples actions,thats what makes you a valued contributor,not a tag. You wanna disagree with someone here thats fine,it starts in a public forum have the balls to keep it in a public forum or stick your tail between your 2faced chickensh*t legs and go kiss your own as* to feed your ego instead of doing it by being an invisible keyboard warrior. If whats said here hurts your delicate fragile little ego so badly that you have to threaten peoples families,you dont belong here you belong in therapy There is no shame in being a resident,not being a resident,posting or not posting,but there is shame in being such a chickensh*t,immature,cowardly SOB you can't stand up for yourself.....and if you dont have the sack to stand up for yourself and what you claim to believe in you dont belong on this forum or any other,regardless if youre a paying member,lurker or what. Sorry if noone agrees but if theres one thing in this world i cant stand its a f'n 2faced coward
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I was in a co-op biz once... no boss?.. yeah right, everyone else in the biz thinks they are the boss, the peer pressure & guilt-tripping from multiple directions is worse then just having a boss! Actually I loved the experience, but is was a bit of a clusterfuk of opinions about how things are supposed to be run.
Good thing this is not a co-op, it could get really annoying.
I think Mike's point is valid. If Steve required payment, Mike would base his decision to participate on that requirement... as it stands now, the "tax" is voluntary, & his decision to participate at the level he does is based on the current standing policies.
If all the other would-be policy writers would lay off the guilt trips & let Steve run it his way things will probably be fine for another 10 years.
(NOTE: Jeff's original topic is not among the comments I consider guilt trips, but the tone has turned somewhat in that direction IMO)
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
An attack on any person that dave has put up with is wrong. Phone calls, emails, or other forms of harrasment or whatever has caused more pain for more people here.
Dave, Out this riff raff if you know who is doing this. It kind of low life crap has happened too many times to too many people for way to long.
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
I'm totally not going to get into the reasons anyone "should" or "could" or Would" pay residency, that's supposed to be up to each individual's conscience. But I sincerely believe money is needed and deserved. If enough people aren't voluntarily kicking in to make it financially feasible for the Shortreeds maybe there are other ways to suppliment operating capital.
Two I thought of:
A Paypal type button where you could click anytime and toss a few bucks into your 'account'. Might see participants who would end up giving far more than $50 over the course of a year.
Letterville merchandise for sale - hats, t-shirts, aprons, Songpainter CDs, even contributed items like books, old meet Ts, etc, that also could be paid for with a Paypal type button. Like eBay has their "Buy It Now". Impulse purchases.
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
What… you mean this ISN’T chicken salad ?
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
That is a great idea Joe!
I knoe so many times when I reach out for some help & I get it... I'm feeling pretty well taken care of in that moment.. often knowing some specific funds that were earned or saved as a result.
Reminds me of my days in NYC with various characters on every street corner shaking a blue coffee cup half full of coins... sometimes I got the impulse to chip in..
...you know that animated dog in XP's search engine? we should have a pop-up animated gif that shakes a little coin cup complete with a .wav file of some coin jingling samples... the character could be a shaky Jake sign painter dude... one click takes you to Joe's paypal shopping cart for random donations Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
quote:Originally posted by Sheila Ferrell: I wonder if stalking, or harrassment is an issue with anyone . . .why would you make your phone number and address so readily avaiable to the world at large??
How does someone operate a business and hide their address and phone number at the same time?
As for Dave's problem, I'd like to see the spineless creature that's harassing him OUTTED and ARRESTED. Probably be best for the latter to happen first though.
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
I agree Chris..If you want to sell or advertise your services on the internet then you must provide your contact information.
As far as Dave's "stalker" problem. I have only met Dave once but I know he is a decent person who would not intentionally harm anyone. He does not deserve any sort of harrasement. (I DID harrass him once though, sorta..remember the "winking eye" Dave??? )
I have had issues with others in the past, and I don't deny that I have been vocal about them, but I definitely don't believe in anonymous threatening stuff. That is for jerks.
I truly hope Dave finds out who is threatening and gets them dealt with properly.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Well, I guess I meant . . .residents or visitors here, who are not here to get sign sales from this site . . . . (but if there are web-sites shown, I guess they have that phone/locale info in them too . . .)
Mabey Letterville has, or will get, it's own 'FBI' goin', to root out the stalker types . . .
The world is a big place full of Looney toons . . .but it's unacceptable that anyone would harrass ANYONE on this site . . . and there nust be a way to totally avoid, or curtail it . . . right?? I'm askin . . .
BTW . . .did'nt a chick named Rosemary have a problem with this as well??
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Rosemary had trouble with a stalker through involvement on an internet chat site, but it was not this one. Her father (Pierre, most recently seen here on the Avery topic using Rosemary's brothers log-in) is the moderator on a very active firearms BB, & the stalker incident came about via that board.
There has been some very serious harassmant behind the scenes of this site that could only be diagnosed as the symptoms of a genuine mental health issue. Hopefully I will not draw further episodes upon myself as a result of this anonymous remark. I have no knowledge of any connection with Dave's current troubles, but those of which I speak were quite out in the open due to several people experiencing similar emails to myself.
Dave's troubles sound far more serious then anything I know of the ancient history I'm referring to.
Posted by Terry Colley (Member # 1245) on :
((--- PHOTO NOT COMMING, PICTURE IS CLOSE ENOUGH
Getting back to the original topic, I pay basically because I visit almost daily, also when I needed support to host a meet this site gave a lot of help for free,I can understand that an odd few simply can't pay, because they are struggling to survive but there are those who choose not to pay because they are just tight and can get everything here for free, you dont need to sell too many signs to pay your due here.There are givers and takers in all walks of life. We would like it if more people would support Steve and Barb, but they should not need to have special offers to get visitors to join Cheers Terry
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
I'm fixing up my upstairs office. As a result, I haven't been watching the BB the way I usually do. Barb noticed this post heating up and advised me to drag my butt down here and see if I can calm the angry mob.
This Residency issue comes up from time to time. We don't feel comfy talking about it. Someone always seems to turn it around and Barb and yours truly end up being portrayed as beggars. Someone once compared us to Jim Jones, evildoers fleecing an innocent flock. Ouch! That one did hurt.
Letterville started out as The Letterhead Website. It was 1995. Due to a couple heart attacks, I was labeled disabled and forced to close the sign shop we established in 1975. It was a terrible time emotionally, physically and financially.
The Letterhead Website had 22 shops involved. Nobody seriously considered it would ever be more than a hobby. We had a chat channel, a list of shops we updated daily and a very simple BB. It was all built with HTML For Dummies and the assistance of a couple very smart kids I met online. It wasn't fancy, but it did give me a new reason to get up everyday.
I'm taking you on this trip down memory lane for a reason. We're not corporate people, suppliers, or publishers. Our background is making signs and running a small sign shop. We've been involved with a group of others who share our passion and desire to exchange information. Letterville is our attempt to spread the word about Letterheads and establish a voice for small shop owners.
When it became apparent we had a growing child on our hands, we looked at various plans to feed him. Selling advertising seemed to be what the mags did, so we did the same. I can remember bragging that the users of this site would never have to pay a dime. The advertisers would pay for our playground. Isn't free great!
Then a funny thing happened. It was all Appy's fault. One of our advertisers called and demanded I remove a post that talked about a competing product. This was my first introduction into the World of Corporate Marketing and something the marketing guy called "the real sign industry."
I'm either nuts or just plain stubborn. For most of my life, I've been living under the thumb of bank managers, impossible customers and others. I put myself in this position. In the process I created a merry-go-round that I could not stop. Looking back I like to call it suicide by sign shop. Nothing like 4 heart attacks to make you step back and revaluate what is really important. I always thought all of us small shops who actually create signs were the "real sign industry."
I sent that advertiser packing. It hurt to lose the income, but I am not interested in running a website that is controlled or sponsored by advertisers. Nothing wrong with those that do, but my interest is the people that make signs. These are "our people."
Pretty big talk. I realized that I could not serve two masters at the same time without having to sell-out on occasion. That's when and why the Resident idea was born. We had to find a way to ensure Letterville could survive without being completely dependant on advertisers. Having a sponsor may be nice on the pocket book, but sooner or later those that pay will dictate the game. The same goes for our live meets but that is a whole other subject.
Here's the bottom line. If you identify with anything I have said above, that alone may be motivation to become a subscriber. That's what a Resident really is. It's not human nature to pay for something you get free, so Residents get some great perks as an added incentive. Many have won door prizes worth hundreds, sometimes thousands of dollars in our Monthly Resident Draws. There's also some clipart and fonts available to Residents in the Letterville Vault, your photo is included in your post and we'll give you some space on our server for your photos. It's great value for those who are interested.
Those not interested in becoming Residents are just as welcome. All Residents were Visitors at one time. At live Letterheads, the exchange of knowledge is always free. The admission we pay only helps cover the costs associated with putting on the meet. Someone mentioned that those who share info and answer questions should be treated differently. At a real meet, that would mean everyone gets in for free. We're all in the same boat when it comes to this Letterhead experiment. The truth is each and evey one of you is special.
I hope this has enlightened some of you about Letterville and why we have Residents. We've come to accept that Lertterville will never be everyone's cup of tea, but we're trying to do the best we can with the time and resources available. It's no accident Letterville is the most popular sign community in the World. We work our butts off and love what we do. With all due respect to Mike, he has never managed anything remotely close to Letterville. There isn't anything like Letterville!
BTW...If anyone is interested in becoming a Resident, we'd love to hear from you. More info at http://www.letterhead.com/residents/index.html Posted by Pierre Tardif (Member # 3229) on :
Everybody want everything for free and on the other hand they want to get paid for what they do...Go figure!
That's a vivious circle! If you like Metallica and you don't pay for their music, do you think they will have money to record another album, or to go on tour? They'll quit and you will loose them!! That's pretty simple!
I seriously think that this can happen to this site.
However Steve is the Mayor and he runs this place like he wants to. The big guy is stubborn and I don't think he will change his mind about this.
Personnally I decided not to answer any topic or question brought by a non-resident unless I know that the person is new here or unable temporarly financially to pay his taxes. That's my own belief but everybody is making more than $50 a year with all the helps tips, tricks and support that they receive from this place.
Hey I always paid for my subscribtion to Signcraft and I always thought it worth it! By the way who gets Signcraft for FREE?!?... And there is plenty of advertising in it!
Posted by Jeff Spradling (Member # 1615) on :
I did not intend to make anyone feel like a beggar or a free loader. I just know I don’t think I realized the worth of this site until it became so helpful during the recent “vinyl thing”. I think anyone that has this vinyl thing going on understands what I mean.
I don’t wish a thing like this on anyone but if you happen to have it happen, I’ll bet you’d be thankful to have a place to speak about it without being censored because of a corporate influence.
I just hate it when you bring something up here and it gets twisted around or changed to a different topic.
I have never met Dave and I mean no disrespect, no one needs to be harassed but I’m not sure I get the connection. You said the harassment started again after your “Cargill” post but yet you just started another post just a few days ago. Again I’m not trying to start another **** slinging match but when someone else came here and said
“I gotta wonder why everyone here is more concerned with everyone elses business than with drapers post.....i personally couldnt give 2 craps about who chooses to be a resident or not and why, and neither should anyone else......part of being a cohesive group is policing your own,and as long as some chickensh*t sack of crap is emailing and friggin calling peoples families,having more people sign on while we pretend something like that isnt happening isnt further any cause.”
That’s a different topic and without keeping this a user supported (financially) site ya may not be able to come here and speak your piece.
I simply think more people can afford to cough up the $50 and help keep this place going strong...possibly make it better and continue to give us a place to speak our piece without being censored.
Jeff
Posted by John Deaton III (Member # 925) on :
quote:If all the other would-be policy writers would lay off the guilt trips & let Steve run it his way things will probably be fine for another 10 years.
Yep, Doug, and in ten years, the same people that are residents will be residents then too. I dont think anyones trying to lay a guilt trip on anyone else, and I dont think less of someone just cause they arent a resident. Ill put it this way, if you feel you gain something from coming to this site, why not be a resident? If you feel you dont gain anything from it, then dont be a resident. Simple, huh.
Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
I live in a tourist town, Gettysburg. Like Letterville, people come to visit, enjoy the atmosphere, and return time after time. They also use our resources, share our roads, drop trash, and require our emergency services. We "taxpayers" support these visitors and we also welcome them into our town again and again. Eventually some of them become residents, like I have, and they become the supporters, who then continue the cycle of keeping the town looking good for the next visitors.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Well put Steve, (as usual)
(U2 Gene)
[ November 12, 2004, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Jeff, you're absolutely right . . .and I'm sorry for getting off topic too . . . .
Gene, you said that exactly right . . . Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
Doug,
The information is invaulable shared here, but it still doesn't pay the bills. Posted by Cheryl Lucas (Member # 1656) on :
Jeff,
If I recall correctly, it took me a few years to pay up and become a resident here. As much as I wanted to pay my 'taxes' I continued to face the delimma of where I absolutely needed to focus my finances. FYI, it was a birthday gift (from Gramma) that allowed me my 'status' here.
I attended my first Letterhead meet in 2000, where I met the Shortreeds' and another 50 or so sign-makers. During those years, I posted here freely, both giving and taking, attended several meets, phoned and emailed fellow Letterheads for advise, invited the same into my home, and heck, I even co-hosted a Letterhead meet at my shop. All of which, during my 'visitor' status!
I, was the same person as a visitor as I am a resident! Though I must admit, I have a better conscience for helping to support this wonderful network.
I realize, I'm coming in a little late on this HOT thread, but decided to throw in my 2 cents for the sake of the newbee's and otherwise 'visitors' lurking; Steve & Barb, nor any other Resident here have ever put any personal pressure on me to pay my taxes. I did it, because 'I' wanted to!!!
Cher.
**edited** to add: I've never been much into status. I walk to the beat of my own drummer!
[ November 12, 2004, 04:35 PM: Message edited by: Cheryl Lucas ]
Posted by John Deaton III (Member # 925) on :
Let me add this before I am misconstrued. I didnt want my reply to sound like it was coming down on Mike or anyone else. I like mike and think he adds alot to the site. I also think alot of visitors add tremendous amounts of info here, some more than most residents like me. It just seems to me that out of 4000 plus members, only 250 or so are residents. Its a voluntary thing and will stay that way according to Steve. I just thought that more people ought to consider being a resident. One opinion in a barrel of many.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
John, I myself didn't think your earlier post re: Mike was an attack... & to clear up my intent on my earlier post I hadn't considered your post to be guilt-tripping (and didn't necessarilly percieve that you thought I did either)... now that thats all clarified...
"guilt trip" may be a strong accusation, & not one anyone would want said about their posts, so maybe I shouldn't have used that expression, but as Steve has repeated here in this thread... the FREE exchange of ideas may not pay the bills... but it IS the spirit that spawned this whole thing in '95 & the spirit that fueled the devotion of heart & soul the Shortreeds have invested in it ever since.
This site is like seeing a live band perform with no cover charge at the door, but a small tip jar off in one discreet corner of the stage.
This thread has, at moments, become like a gnarly bouncer walking through the dance floor with the tip jar glaring at everyone so they will feel uncomfortable if they don't pay.
Speaking from experience, I would rather throw a party with a large crowd all having fun, but only a small amount of tips... then risk anyone leaving, or not having fun because of overzealous fans shaking the tip jar a little too loud or too often.
For the record I was a visitor for only about 2 weeks & a resident for 3 years now.
Posted by Mark Matyjakowski (Member # 294) on :
No, no, no, NO boy. That ain't no chicken. Now that over there . . . now, that's a dead hoarse
now we need more sauce
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
I'm a resident for one reason....
I like it here..
(well, MAYBE because I caused Steve to chase off one of his first "merchants"..I'll always be sorry for that Steve)
No..I am a resident because this site made me aware of the things I COULD do that I had never even considered doing previously.
This site also has introduced me and Shirl to MANY folks that we would never have met otherwise. Can you imagine Mike Meyer ever having met John Jordan (who I had the pleasure of meeting too) if it weren't for this website?? AND travelling all around the world to meet up with other sign folks?
Personally, Shirl and I have met MANY folks that we would never have met if not for this website. And we cherish the memories of our meetings.
AS far as cost is concerned..Shirl and I think nothing of spending $50 on a nice dinner/with drinks, and that only lasts one evening...$50 for a whole year's worth of information AND entertainment is a real bargain!!!!
By the way...just like several of we Canadians..that $50 US has been about $75 to us. And no complaints about the costs here.
Posted by dave parr (Member # 3868) on :
I don't quite understand that last comment Dave. Are you suggesting that all this discussion breaks down to a division by country problem? I hope you are not suggesting that. I can't see that holding up to scrutiny, can you?
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
where's the smilies ( 's )Dave P. ? ... you can't be serious Posted by dave parr (Member # 3868) on :
Ok, I get it. Dave himself is not complaining about the equivalent of $75.00 Canadian. He isn't intending to say there are no complaints in Canada, just no complaints from him.
Posted by Suelynn Sedor (Member # 442) on :
Nope Dave,
I'm pretty sure he meant that because of the exhange rate on our money over the years, we have been paying $75.00 for our residency. I don't see any division there.
I can't believe someone that runs their own business can't find $50.00 somewhere. If you aren't clearing $50.00 a month, what the hell are you doing in business??? I think retired signpainters should get a lifetime membership though.
Suelynn
Posted by CJ Allan (Member # 52) on :
Hmmmmmmmmmm............
quote: Personnally I decided not to answer any topic or question brought by a non-resident unless I know that the person is new here or unable temporarly financially to pay his taxes
The true spirit of Letterville...........???
Cracks me up, Things never change here, just faces
Almost 70 posts to once again beat this poor ol horse to death.....Dang critter is just about mush now.....
Why don't I become a payer here..??
Simple... #1......I Don't Want Too...!!? No excuses No whiney mumbo Jumbo..........Just a Plain & simple, I Just Don't Want too....
I have in the past..... I May again in the Future..........
#2....Because of the attitudes of the small group like that posted above.....
Steve & Barb have stayed in our home, and most likely will again sometime.......We consider them Friends, and our door is always open to them.......
But like I said.......A small group around here keeps most people away.........and the sad part is, the only ones that can't see this, are mostly the ones responsible for keeping people away away.........
........cj
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
What a dumb friggin post Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
I was just making the obdervsation that exchange rates have affected what Canadians pay. And I was NO suggesting any division and I was also saying that I wasn't complaining about it either.
Posted by dave parr (Member # 3868) on :
Ok Dave. I understand. You were only commenting that you and Shirl have no problem with the taxes that equate to roughly $75.00 in Canada. I see that now. It would probably have been intelligent for me not post that question until I had read it a few more times. You seem to be a decent guy; I'm sure you had no ill intent by your statement.
Posted by Brad Farha (Member # 931) on :
I was a resident for several years, but stopped coming by for a long time. I guess my membership lapsed.
Posted by BrianTheBrush (Member # 1298) on :
What a bummer...The movie might be new, but it's the same sound track.
Keep on keepin' on.
Posted by dave parr (Member # 3868) on :
Since I've stolen Dave's identity, don't hold the comments that follow against him...
I wonder why the site owners don't consider reducing the yearly membership fee to, say, $20 or $25, in order to encourage more visitors to join? The site owners would benefit by reaping more income because more folks would join.
Maybe a poll would be useful to determine whether the dues reduction would be feasible.
Well, I've gotta run ... back to speaking in tongues and handling snakes,
Boo Radley
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Hi Boo! Where ya been? Ain't seen you since you walked me home that night. In my opinion, if you lower the fee to $25, even less money will go to Barb-n-Steve because there will still be the same amount of Residents. Love....Scout
Posted by dave parr (Member # 3868) on :
I'm sure Boo meant the membership would no doubt increase to a level well beyond its current number, & beyond double in time, due to the lower cost. I think that's why Boo suggested a poll. But then, I'm not Boo, so this is just speculation. I personally don't see what all the clatter is about.
Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
I say let's kill this mockingbird. I think Steve needs to send out a blanket email to all current Members - Resident & Visitor, Lurkers etc. Anyone who has participated and for whom he has email addresses. I guarantee there will be quite a few new faces showing up on the board. Of course maybe that's not a good idea, for that same reason. I sometimes have enough trouble looking at the current faces. Then you'll have to look at my mug! Posted by Stevo Chartrand (Member # 2094) on :
Pay $50.00 per year and receive Perks and your name in the monthly draw. Best 50 bux I spent!
If you dont want to, so be it!
NUFF SAID!
Stevo
Posted by Bill Cosharek (Member # 1274) on :
I was thinking along the lines of what Dave suggested. Maybe there should be a 3rd category besides Visitor & Resident. Somewhere in between, could be some who would not receive all the perks reserved for Residents. They would contribute, but not expect to be eligible for the draws or have their picture (or that substitute box) by their name. Not everyone is comfortable with that anyway.
The only perk they'd ask for is to be able to use the picture posting area, currently reserved for Residents only. That could have some limits placed upon for posting them. They could be restricted to only posting ON Topic subject matter, and a limit to how many pics to post (in a certain time-frame) could be enforced.
The Residense will still believe they control all aspects of the board. That's never gonna change; even though Steve's attempted sermon suggested otherwise. So maybe a third title might ease the tension. Of course, this is all from a former Resident, now turned to a (usually positive) contributing Visitor. I may never see myself as a Resident, but also can never abandon the Letterhead movement; as I thought it was meant to be.
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Hey! Canadian cost of being a Resident is getting cheaper!
As of this morning, Canadian dollar is .89 cents to the US dollar!
Does this mean Dave Grundy will be spending 3 months in warm Mexico this winter?
[ November 14, 2004, 12:16 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
Posted by William Holohan (Member # 2514) on :
A little comment from a non sign painter.
Three years ago I knew absolutely nothing about the sign "business". Today, because of the board and it's many contributors, I have been able to help 2 sign companies markedly increase their net incomes.
For a mere $50 I have gotten what could be considered a "masters" degree in the in's and outs (or should that be the innies and outies?)of successfully running a sign business.
Spent 30 years turning around multi-family rental properties that were in distress. Most of the same good business practices apply to the sign trade...BUT...
The sign business has many areas that are unique to it only. Those areas of difference were quite evident when joining this and other boards and perusing the archives for hours and hours and hours. This board and its archives are a gold mine of ideas, practices, suggestions that can make the difference to many readers between working for just a weeks pay and building a business that will put their kids though Princeton and not just the community college.
$50...geez, that's not as much as I spent for my last tooth cleaning, and I'm sure that dental technician won't contribute to my grandkids college fund.
This site surely will. Come on folks, get off the dime and cough up the "chump change" that helps this place exist. The profit from one single sided 24x36 yard sign should about cover it and leave you lunch money to boot.
Posted by Myra Grozinger (Member # 327) on :
I now for the first time skimmed this post, noticing it just going on and on and on.
Someone said it right! This is a dumb waste of time post.
Obviously those pay to whom coming here is worth it. They pay out of respect for Steve and Barb's work to make this Board possible.
Those with agendas or to whom it is not worth it, don't pay, and it is none of my business.
As usual though, I have an opinion on the non-payers that hang out and contribute every day. Be cool....pay for what you are getting, and for what you seem to want.
[ November 14, 2004, 12:48 PM: Message edited by: Myra Grozinger ]
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
If all we're going to do is browbeat each other then this thread truly is a waste of energy. If some insights to raise awareness or cash are hatched then it is useful. So far I'd say it must have raised some awareness, particularly with newcomers who haven't heard this rant before. So that's a plus.
A couple new cash generating ideas have also been introduced that I don't remember hearing before. Why not a 'supporter' status for $25? Perks or not. For that matter, why not a 'booster' status for $10? Sam Walton made billions on the lower-price/more-sales model.
And why not a 'contribution' button on every thread for those impulse moments of generosity? Paypal can do that for like 2% with zero up-front or monthly charges, putting proceeds directly into a paypal account which can be transfered automatically to a checking account.
And where are the Letterville T-shirts and hats and aprons for sale? Yes, that would take some up-front investment and time to inventory, ship etc, but has it ever been truly explored? Ideally those things should be for sale online and at every meet shouldn't they? (But the first two ideas are much more immediate and cheaper to initiate). Beats carping at each other.
Posted by CJ Allan (Member # 52) on :
Well said Myra..........
Yup......... Someone said it right! "This is a dumb waste of time post."
A bunch of people are always tryin to fix things that aren't even broke............
............cj
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Hey CJ
That's twice you've said that. Seems to me you are adding to this "waste of time" post. And repeating yourself no less. Seems to me that you keep coming back to read it. Makes you wonder???
[ November 14, 2004, 04:00 PM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
Posted by CJ Allan (Member # 52) on :
Hey Rick............ Pay attention........ It was Joey and Myra that said it........... Not me........
Just a slow day, and slummin......
Yup Sure makes ya wonder......
Still Cracks Me Up....But, It's the internet
...........cj
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
"Personnally I decided not to answer any topic or question brought by a non-resident unless I know that the person is new here or unable temporarly financially to pay his taxes"
Threads getting dumb??? take a look at that gem
Absolute worst thing i have ever seen posted here and if thats what you think a place like this is,you need to reevaluate yourself and decide if youre here to share what you know or just because you feel only certain people are worthy of being involved with you....jeeze dont check this thread for a couple days and it grows yet noone will dare touch that statement. Absolutely juvenile,two faced,pathetic attitude. You learn and share on a site like this thru respect of others.........and respect is something you earn thru your actions,its not something you buy,ever.
Posted by CJ Allan (Member # 52) on :
Gavin......... That's the post that got me into this in the first place............
I couldn't believe i saw it either......Had to read it several times just to make sure I was reading it right.....but check my posts, I dared touch it.....and posted a quote. But you're right......NOBODY will say anything about someone saying something like that.....just worry about a person that says this is a dumb post......hahahaha
No big thing and still a pointless thread...... Steve and Barb have a pretty good handle on this place...........Always Have, and most likely Always Will......providing all these little "helping hands" stay out of the pie....
Not to Worry.....We can tune in in about six months or so, and see the same thing all over again..........with the same people making the same comments....including me and Joey.. :)hehehe
How ya doin anywayzzz.... ??
........cj
ps..gotta put them smilies in there.
[ November 14, 2004, 07:40 PM: Message edited by: CJ Allan ]
Posted by Myra Grozinger (Member # 327) on :
I may be dense, or unable to decipher some of the more rambling comments. Probably just dense.
But the suggestions of tiers and levels and different types of status and differing amounts of contributions seem really a ridiculous way of approaching the "problem".
Do you guys like doing paperwork? Are all you right brain dominants really suggesting Steve and Barb need to diversify into that kind of account keeping.
I would laugh, but I have a cold, and then I would cough and spit and maybe even SPIT UP.
What in the heck is 50 dollars a year for the value we get here? A dollar a week! Excuse me, but that does not qualify for extortion nor for a real "purchase". Surely not worthy of a thread this long and tedious, when we could be discussing things of some actual value.
Heck, all things considered, I would pay that little just to be taken as seriously as I am on this board, to have almost every other post I comment on deleted.
Beats having to open the phone book to see your name in print. Smileys omitted on purpose.
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
Sheesh... and I really thought that was chicken...
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
No, no no... that was some people trying to make chicken salad by being chicken sh!t...
[ November 14, 2004, 09:19 PM: Message edited by: Bruce Bowers ]
Posted by CJ Allan (Member # 52) on :
Good one Bruce....Typical....Lotsa Class
...........cj
[ November 14, 2004, 10:08 PM: Message edited by: CJ Allan ]
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Wow! 97 posts on the Resident Issue! Ever notice how the smallest thing can become an issue? When you start sniping at each other, it's time for me to step in.
This is not a big issue. There's no can sitting anywhere and we're sure not looking for donations. Letterville is not only a fulltime business, but the most popular "sign website" in the World. Advertising revenue is good. With a few more phone calls it could be really good.
I've already explained why Residents are important so there's no need to go into all that again. Letterville could be compared to PBS TV. You are encourged to become Residents. Instead of the Peter, Paul & Mary video, we'll give you some other perks. The guy or gal who walks away with the 4x8 sheet of Everwood HDU, the Vector Art Collection , or any of the other great door prizes available to Residents in our Monthly Draw will be one happy camper. There is a real value in being a Resident these days.
This posts are always a great chance to toot our own horn and make everyone aware of the Resident Opportunity. In short, it's a win win situation for all invoved.
So lets stop badgering Visitors to become Residents. Some of my dearest and oldest friends are still Visitors. It's no big deal. And by the way! I always intended to send PBS a $100 buck, but never got around to picking up the phone. Life without the Peter, Paul and Mary video sucks.
"So lets stop badgering Visitors to become Residents"
that does sum it up well enough. It sounds like the closing note before locking up too... what happened? did ya forget to turn the key on the way out Steve? Come on, lock this bad boy up before we start a new week with the same old crap Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
just wanted to make it 100...no further comment needed.....
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
Good post Jeff! I can relate to the lightbulb moment on this site's value. I've had many!
By this post, I'm reminded of one of it's greatest virtues. This Steve Shortreed guy! Positive, tolerant, compassionate, reasonable, sticks to his ideals and keeps a sense of humour. A tall order considering the brats he babysits here.
Nettie
Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
Okay, When I become a Resident, can I pick my neighbors? At least the neighborhood?
Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
Okay, When I become a Resident, can I pick my neighbors? At least the neighborhood?
I can't wait! As a resident, my posts will be more intelligent as well as being accepted as gospel, my status will rise, and I can talk about these freeloading visitors and call them out for what they really are. Oh, and my teeth will be whiter AND I can jump higher.
I still want to move here... go figure!
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
OK Gene, that's a little out of line. If someone indicated that, I am sorry. But, you know as well as I do that most of the Residents are decent people.
My whole reason for even commenting on this was to advocate security for residents as well as visitors.
Rick
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
I KNOW!! Over 100 posts on THIS and bunches on rotten vinyl...and on all Todd's polls about nostalgic items, cold remedies or coffee....!!
. . .but I post a topic for names & their meanings and get hardly any interest . . .
But I don' wanna be a baby . . .
and frankly I don't care whether anyone is a resident or not . . . actually, the less residents.... the less competition on the draws each month for those aw'sum prizes...
An' yer so right again Gene . . Art IS knowing when to stop . . . .'cause the colours of this topic have become so muddy . . . I'm still not sure what the "new insight" is . . . or was . . . .
[ November 15, 2004, 12:35 PM: Message edited by: Sheila Ferrell ]
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
Wow! Did anyone miss the obvious? This post hasn't been a waste of time. There is progress!
Gavin used paragraphs!!!
Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
Gene, I hope you can't jump too high now, b'cuz if you're moving in next to me, I don't wan'cha looking over the fence!
I'm not taking this post as personally as some are I guess. If I were so sensitive, I'd be thinking Gene just called me a snob because I'm a resident! hahaha
Well, sure, I am all that and a bag of chips, but that's got nothing to do with my residency status. And there's only ONE person I'd even think of calling a freeloader if she didn't cough up 50 bux ... and that's ME.
But hey, that's between me, and me.
Lighten up people. We're all ok. Okay? Nettie
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Ha Ha Ha Ha Dave!
Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
It was supposed to be tongue-in-cheek, but maybe it hit too close to home.
Sorry if I offended everyone ...
I quit this topic... unless...
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
No harm done Gene. Looking forward to meeting you someday!
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
So lets wrap this up. Here's what we have learned.
1. We value our Residents because their financial support means Letterville can continue to exist as is without solely relying on suppliers. Residents are the only "sponsors" of this website.
2. Residents do not have any official special status. We acknowledge many have a long, loyal history here at Letterville and we love them to death. Most would continue to be Residents if there were no perks at all. Thank You Residents.
3. Visitors are more than welcome. Their participation is vital and much appreciated. They ARE missing out on some cool perks, but that's ok. Not everyone likes winning door prizes. The stuff just takes up valuable shop space anyway.
If you ever change your mind, we'd love to see you move into Letterville. There's still time to get your name in the hat for tonights' Letterville Merchant's Draw. Grab your favorite credit card and give Barb a call at 519-787-2673. If you're still not sold and need more info, checkout our Resident's Page to learn more.
4. We spend too much time sweating the small stuff around here. I'd like to see the same energy invested in in topics like this, shown to others asking questions and/or seeking help.
A popular topic like this is a great place to remind you all to visit our new Letterville Merchant's Forum everytime you visit the BB. We need to get a snappy new icon you can click on.
Letterville Merchant's are being contacted and strongly urged to use this Forum to offer information and specials to Letterville users. I've never been able to understand why Merchants invest so much in big "sign shows", but ignore the thousands of shop owners that frequent Letterville daily. Go figure.
To make all of this work, we have to convince all of you that there is much more to Letterville than the BullBoard. A good start is watching The Merchant's Forum daily. We also ask that you continue to tell your suppliers about Letterville and the very real opportunity they have to put a face on their business here.
So there you go. Now you know what a Resident is and why thet are needed. You've also learned we are a legit fulltime business with no need for tin cans or donations. If you are loaded and want to will your entire estate to Letterville, that's a whole other issue.
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I feel that people who don't pony up the dough should not get the same advantages as residents do. ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
This site is VERY welcoming and includes everyone, I think. I agree with you that it would be nice to be asked, but the other side of that is that some people might feel that they were being harrassed and pressured if we all sent them notes saying join up. ![[Applause]](graemlins/applause.gif)
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Steve and Barb do a great job and it is a small price to pay.![[Wink]](wink.gif)
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