I just read the Pet Sign Peeves post and a few things were mentioned that I am unsure of myself (and please remember, english is not my first language, so cut me some slack, please):
(1) If this straight ' is not the proper apostrophe, where the heck is it? I have been staring at my keyboard for the last five minutes and can't find a curved one. Am I blind or have they managed to make it a complicated code, so nobody will ever use it?
(2) I continue to be confused about the use of capital letters in headings. Let's take this recent mural project with the theme: LIFE IS AN OPEN ROAD
Is it: Life is an open Road or: Life is an Open Road or: LIfe Is An Open Road
I have seen all of it, but why? Why does it change at all for a title or heading? I think it would be good for me to know so I can help people getting it right.
(3) What's with people choosing business names like:
Duds 'n' Suds or Cuts 'n' Curls
Please tell me that is not proper english...Can you really do that, replace a first letter with an apostrophe? (or foot mark since I still don't know better )
Any teachers out there?
[ November 10, 2004, 12:55 PM: Message edited by: Lotti Prokott ]
Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on :
...When learning to paint bill boards, it was explained to me that caps should be used for the "main" words in copy. And not words like "and, the, a, (etc). This is to Make the Message Easier to Read.
...Goofy names are easier to remember. And some of the more hated ones are (indeed) impossible to forget. Ain't they?
...A ' mark is used to replace a letter. As in THEY'RE. This is OK for "casual" usage but not for formal letters. ...I forget what it's (') called !!! ...help.
Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on :
...OK, I got it, it's an A P O ST R O P H E !!!
Posted by Alan Ackerson (Member # 3224) on :
(Life is an Open Road) Can't say what is the correct way for sure but these links may help.
To get the apostrophe with the curve go to either your character map application in with your accessories and copy and paste it in or, press your alt key then 0-1-4-6.
Should work. Posted by Kimberly Zanetti (Member # 2546) on :
Lotti, The bible of English grammar is a thin paperback book published long, long ago - it's called Elements of Style by Strunk & White. Any bookstore will have one. Get one and put it on your shelf. It will answer virtually any question you have.
Email me if ever have a grammar question - I've done a lot of editing and while I'm far from a perfect grammarian, I'd say I'm better than average. :-)
Posted by Kimberly Zanetti (Member # 2546) on :
Another excellent (and very funny) book is Eats, Shoots & Leaves by Lynne Truss. The subtitle is The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation!
Posted by William Bass (Member # 4929) on :
It's Life Is an Open Road
As far as titles of works of art are concerned, the rules for capitalization are:
Capitalize the FIRST word, whatever it is.
Capitalize all other words EXCEPT...
articles (a, an, the)
prepositions (for, in, over, of, into, with, etc.)
"Life" is the first word ~ it gets capitalized. "Is" is not an article or a preposition (it's a verb) ~ it gets capitalized. "an" is an article so it doesn't get capitalized. "Open" is not an article or preposition (it's an adjective) ~ it gets capitalized "Road" is not an article or preposition (it's a noun) ~ it gets capitalized.
Hope I'm not being too silly with my examples there, just trying to show the logic behind each word in that title...I know the feeling is to not capitalize short words like "is", but that is not the case.
I could be wrong, but I believe LONG prepositions (between, without, except, etc.) may or may not be capitalized according to preference.
There may be other rules concerning titles, but I don't know them.
BUT...
An artist is NOT bound by these rules and may capitalize or not capitalize as they see fit. To make a title more recognizeable, one might not capitalize ANY of the words or capitalize all of the letters and leave the vowels in lower case or whatever. It is good to know the rule, though, before you break it.
Good question.
And, WOW, you have GOOD English for someone for whom it is a second language.
[ November 10, 2004, 10:39 PM: Message edited by: William Bass ]
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
Lotti, the Style Manual is excellent, but not exactly riveting reading. Readers Digest published a book called "How to Write & Speak Better" which is also very good.
'n' as a word, has the two ' marks at each end indicating a letter is missing from each spot. It is the word AND, with the a & the d out. Eg Scotch 'n' Ice. Don't = Do Not with the ' replacing the o. They'll has the ' replacing the two letters wi - they will.
Comparing the inch and foot marks " & ' with the punctuation items or inverted commas and apostrophes is academic. On keyboards, they are the same key. Certain programs have 'smart quotes' wherein it tries to decide whether you mean the 66 & 99 kind of quote marks also called inverted commas) and the apostrophe, or whether you in fact mean the feet & inches symbols.
Some fonts have both, other fonts have only the one kind. There are alternate codes to get the keyboard to be able to specify the particular one, but I've not looked it up just yet.
Hope this helps!
Posted by William Bass (Member # 4929) on :
Okay, I'm a grammar nut and had to go look up the official rules for capitalization in titles of works of art...
Here's a website that had a list that's a LITTLE different from mine.
[ November 10, 2004, 10:47 PM: Message edited by: William Bass ]
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
Lotti has excellent english and barely gets the cart before the horse so to speak. She does have this wonderful accent though and I've noticed her spelling and grammar are rarely wrong - maybe thats because she takes extra care. This reminds me of the story that you told about the only people who ever pronounce your name right - I love that!
Posted by Ethan Rutkoff (Member # 3802) on :
From the olden days of specifiying type for a typesetter:
( I think I have these right, it has been so long a time)
Upper and Lower case (also Caps and Lowercase) U/lc or C/lc: Life is an Open Road
Inital Caps I/c: Life Is An Open Road
All caps and all lower case are obvious. Each is used primarily is different ways. U/lc is commom for headlines and titles, where I/c is more common for ‘slide’ presentations and bullet lists.
Unless of course it is paragraph text, in which case U/lc would be:
Life is an open book.
I believe it was Pushpin Studios (Milton Glaser) that used to have a great publication called U/lc on typography and use of letters and lettering.
Give yourself a gold star if you know the meaning of the term ‘Second Leading’.
--Ciao for Niao--
Ethan
Posted by Lotti Prokott (Member # 2684) on :
You have all been very helpful, but I still dislike the idea of capitalizing a verb. Oh well, grammar is about rules not preferences, exept for artists, of course Hermann Hesse said, "An artist's advantage over an insane person is, that his madness does not get locked up but adds value to his product" (my own translation, hopefully more or less correct)
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I wouldn't capitalize a verb either... at least not a linking verb, maybe an action verb "Life is Running on an Open Road"
I always looked up to Mark Twain for teaching me the concept of "artistic license" & helping me to get a few high school english paper scores upgraded.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
LOL!!! You made me sing "Conjunction Junction" again!!! Does anyone remember that??
I actually think one can arrange their caps on things just about the way they like or for what ever their unique purpose is, and how it looks best with that purpose in mind, and in this day and time, this is known very creatively, as "creative writing".
If 'Life is an Open Road' were a book title or restaurant name I would think it would be as shown...(but it might be done entirely with caps & sub-caps just as well!)
I go over this with customers all the time. The latest example is. . .
'A Methodist Home for the Aging'
in U & L Times bold italic will be done as shown. I can not imagine, nor will I tolerate, (lol) cappin' words that are conjunctions and are basically just secondary copy . . .
Lottie, I saw the comma symbol used as an apostrophe on that other thread too . . .I don't have one on my keypad either!! I ain't got no musical notes neither . . .
ANYWAY . . .what about names that end with two ss's . . .an example of pluralizing a last name like 'Hess' would be: The Hess' . . .right??? I don't know either, I'm askin'.
The Hesses is wrong, and so is The Hess's I think. .. mabey it's: The Hess`
Yet saying 'guesses' is ok . . .so things change drastically from showing personal ownership to past tensing a verb, or mentioning we dined with the Hess's . . .
I must admit, sentence structure, and diagraming sentences, predicates and all that jazz were not where my highest grades came from in school . . .my grammer was just the chick that hung out with gramper . . . .and I don't remember actually getting high grades . . .I stopped short at just getting high . . .
I'm afraid my lasidasical attitude has finally caught up with me . . .the best thing to do now, until I can get into some college courses, is either talk really hillbilly, which I excell at, and therefore absolve myself entirely of any expectations, or try to 'sound' educated with moderately lucid sentences tossed together with a big mispelled word here and there, to create a rather coherent salad that's dressed with a few strategically placed pauses and a lot'a exclaimatory laughter, like this . . . LOL!
Posted by William Bass (Member # 4929) on :
Today on Grammar of Our Lives . . . Coordinating conjunctions (for, and, nor, but, or, yet, so) are not capitalized in titles of literary works, either. I left this fact out off my first post, but I linked to a page mentioning this fact in my second post on this thread.
There are also SUBORDINATING conjunctions, which ARE capitalized ("since" is a subordinating conjunction). Here is a link to a page, which goes into much detail about conjunctions ~ http://www.gsu.edu/~wwwesl/egw/bryson.htm.
VERBS, even two letter verbs (e.g. "is"), ARE capitalized according to grammar rules, should you wish to follow them. If the title of a child's book was Joe Goes to School, you would definitely capitalize "Goes" because it is a verb. You would not capitalize "to" because it is a preposition. For prepositions that are 5 letters long or more, you may use your preference for capitalization (of course, artistic license lets you capitalize whatever you want).
In regards to names that end in a double-s (like Hess), they ARE pluralized by adding "es" to the end, as in "the Hesses". This is just like "dress" becoming "dresses."
Regarding the use of apostrophes, they are used to indicate that letters have been omitted, especially in contractions, but they are also used to indicate possession. Apostrophes are never used to indicate plurality.
The rule for using apostrophes, as I understand it, is as follows:
If the word is a plural word, simply add an apostrophe to the end of the word. If the word is singular, add an apostrophe-s ('s) to the end of the word.
***Pronunciation Note*** Adding an apostrophe to the end of the word does NOT affect pronunciation. Adding an apostrophe-s ('s) to the end of the word adds an unaccented /iz/ sound to the end of the word.
Examples If the car belongs to the Hesses, then you write, "This is the Hesses' car." If the car belongs to just one person named Hess, then you would write "This is Hess's car."
Hesses, Hesses', and Hess's all sound the same but have different spellings and meanings.
It many cases it is preferable to avoid the problem by saying or writing, "This car belongs to Hess" or "This car belongs to the Hesses." Phrased this way, the sentences sound better and are clearer in meaning.
Another example is the last names Jones. If the car belongs to the Jones family (the Joneses), then you would write, "This is the Joneses' car" or "This car belongs to the Joneses." If the car belongs to one person named Jones, then you would write, "This is Jones's car," or "This car belongs to Jones."
Again, Joneses, Joneses', and Jones's all sound alike but have different spellings and meanings. . . . Today's show has been brought to you by the letter "I" and the number "3".
Posted by William Bass (Member # 4929) on :
BTW, Lottie, if you don't mind me asking, what is your native language?
Posted by Alan Ackerson (Member # 3224) on :
** ’ **
Here's one for you to copy and paste Sheila if ever needed. lol
Posted by Lotti Prokott (Member # 2684) on :
You guy's are making my head spin. No need to attend college courses - come to Letterville!
Sheila, you're making me spill my coffee... and don't you start using words that are not in my dictionary! Lasidasical?? I think you made that up
Hi William, this stuff is right up your alley, isn't it? Well, my native language is swiss, but since it is not a written language, my native written language would be german. Why is swiss not a written language? Here's the thing, there are so many dialects that if a bunch of Swiss come together from all over the country, it sounds like your in Babel, yet we do understand each other. Or maybe not really, maybe that's why we get along, lol. Anyway, if I write swiss, I can write it any which way I like, there are no rules. It's great fun, you can even make up words that kind of sound like the right thing in context and people will just assume they're part of your particular dialect. They have an awful thing going with the german language, they incorporate so many english words. That alone would be bad but mind you, they are "germanizing" them: e-mail as a verb becomes e-mailen, or download becomes downloaden, it looks ridicoulous and sounds horrible when spoken.
I've noticed that it seems to be hip to use german words in english, like Angst, schmusen, schleppen, etc. That makes me laugh every time.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Is you is or is you ain't my baby? The way you're actin' lately makes me doubt Yous is still my baby-baby Seems my flame in your heart's done gone out A woman is a creature that has always been strange Just when you're sure of one You find she's gone and made a change Is you is or is you ain't my baby Maybe baby's found somebody new Or is my baby still my baby true?
That one break enough rules? Rapid
Posted by William Bass (Member # 4929) on :
<Dr. Grammar has stepped out of the room...class is cancelled until further notice.>
Yes, I love grammar.
I love German, too. English is mostly a mix of French and German (and a handful of other languages as well); that's one reason why it's so hard to learn to spell English: we have spelling rules from many languages and they often contradict each other.
I studied German for a couple of semesters in college. I'm not fluent, though. "Downloaden"? "Emailen"? LOL. THAT is hilarious!
Ah, Swiss. No wonder Kelly loves your accent. English with a Swiss accent is really neat. I wonder if any language is neat when spoken with an American accent....Nah!
Sheila must be Swiss; she makes up words all the time and we just assume they're part of her dialect. LOL.
It took me awhile, but I DID decipher her word lasidasical; it is actually lackadaisical, which is the opposite of enthusiastic.
Ray, LOL. The grammar police are after you now: that song breaks Title 14 Chapter 3 Section 32 subsection 14a of the Grammar Code (subject/verb agreement rules)....you're in deep trouble!
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Lasidaisical is too a werd . . .!!!
It's derived from the playful scolding you mite git when yer bein' LAZY-daisy . .. which comes from the historical layin' around in a field of daisys . . . BUT LACK-adaisical is when you ain't got any daisys AND don't care . . . AND you ain't TRYIN' to keep up with the Jonesesessss’ ...(thanx Alan)
I ain't Swiss neither . . BUT I ain't got'ny thing against them or Germans. . . .they make good hot chocolate AND cake and all . . AND I like Ms. Lottie TOO . . . I'm sorry you split yer coffee . . .
~~~~~~conjunction junction~~~~
~~~~wha's yer function~~~~~
Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
I think it depends on what your definition of "is" is. The rest is academic or epidemic, it's making me sick, and it's catching.
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Lackadaisical=half-assed. Learned it is 9th grade grammar. (not from Gramma) Love....Jill
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I got Joe Jackson lyrics stuck in my head now...not a bad thing though
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
)![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
Does anyone remember that??![[Frown]](frown.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Bash]](graemlins/bash.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)