Just got back from the paint store were I was told as of Jan. 5 there will be no more oil based paints. The dealer wasn't sure of all the details. He says it's from PA north. He said some stores and manufactures have stock piled some paints, so it won't be immediate. Some oil based paint formulas will be changed and some will only be sold in quarts, but most will not be sold after supplies run out. Anybody else heard anything or in an area that has already done this? Anybody from One Shot have anymore info?
Posted by mike meyer (Member # 542) on :
I was at the One Shot plant in July and they didn't say anything about it. What is the paint store and how soon before this person working was to go on a vacation?
Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on :
...What was that guy smokin'?
Posted by Eric Humphreville (Member # 4762) on :
It wasn't One Shot specifically, but since it's an oil based paint I was wondering. It was a Ben Moore dealer, but he said it included most of what they carry Sikkens, Zinnser etc..
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
I choose to believe that it means that this one particular company may be discontinuing their line of oil-based paints and is not reflective of the oil-based paint industry as a whole. Posted by Dale Kerr (Member # 4661) on :
I just got ogg the phone with B.M. and it is affecting 6 north eastern states and products will not be available after Jan 2005. It has to do with the amount of VOC in the paint and is regulated basically by the EPA. I asked about bringing the product in from other states that are not effected and they said it would basically be illegal.
Am I ever glad I live in canada. Dale
Posted by Eric Humphreville (Member # 4762) on :
Not from the way he told me it sounded at least state wide if not multiple states. Like I said they carry multiple brands and all of them were affected. I don't want to argue since I don't know the details I was just wondering if anyone else had heard anything. Maybe check the next time your at a paint store to see what they have to say. This wasn't a new guy at the store, he's been there as long as I can remember.
Posted by Eric Humphreville (Member # 4762) on :
Thanks for the research Dale. It is probably not just Ben Moore then if it has to do with VOC's.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Well I don't buy my paint from a paint store, nor do I use house paint so unless One-shot chimes in I'm not too concerned.
Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
Eric, I was told this by a Sherwin-Williams dealer awhile back and I thought it was crazy. But what you say seems to verify it, at least here in PA. The S-W guy said that S-W provides paints for WalMart and that they just bought out Duron so there goes the neighborhood. How does this affect automotive painters?
Posted by John Deaton III (Member # 925) on :
You oughta try that house paint bob. It works better than one shot. And I cant find anywhere on the Porter brand can I use, the words "House Paint". Says it works on wood , metal, concrete, etc.
[ September 24, 2004, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: John Deaton III ]
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
well, if it's going to affect iol-based paints around the country all I can say is, "ACK!!! I hope NOT!!"
I love Bar-ox industrial enamels!!
Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
Okay, so we can't buy the paints at Sherwin-Williams anymore, come Jan. 2005. How about the thinners and cleaners? Aren't these also contributing to the VOC's? What happens then?
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Sherwin Williams TOO!!
Good grief. . . . . . .
DOES CALIFORNIA HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH THIS???!!! Posted by Eric Humphreville (Member # 4762) on :
Bob we use the industrial urethane enamel from Ben Moore not the house paints. I really don't get the house paint is for house thing. People use automotive paints on signs is that not OK. Paint dosen't know if it's on a sign or siding. I agree One Shot has advantages for workability and leveling, but thats about it.We still use alot of One Shot But when we need a custom colors we get it mixed. I don't think it holds up any better (worse actually) and it's a very limited palatte.
Posted by John Largent (Member # 4606) on :
Elsewhere on this BB is a thread about how weird Callyfornians are . . . Seconded ONLY by Pennsylvania!
Nothing there would surprise me . . I'm a Street Rodder and loosely follow the state laws pertaining to them around the country (in case I travel through their state in the future, . . . or not) and their Automobile Safety and Modification laws make me wonder if they're even on the same planet.
Soooooo, as for VOC levels in paints sold there, who knows, apparently this is a case of "States Rights run Amok"!
Posted by William Bass (Member # 4929) on :
I was thinking of going to latex anyway. Cuz as far I know, while we are allowed to BUY enamel paints, we are NOT allowed to throw it away--not even licensed sign contractors with dumpster service (I'm sure they do, tho). I called the dumpster company and was told that paint (and even used paint cans!) were not allowed; that I'd have to wait for some special "amnesty" event that occurs ever so often. I got like 50 half-used gallons of paint in my shed. I'm not entirely sure that latex wasn't affected by the stupid rule, too.
I sometimes consider that there ought to be an organized sign industry lobby for sanity (like 4 x 8's could be installed without having a college degree in General Contracting).
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Just a thought though John, if Benjamin Moore lasts 25 years then why do people still vinyl side thier houses and why do people paint thier houses every other year? DOH~
Hey look, Oil base paints have been very good to me, they work and they last, now water based paints on the other hand have let me down on many Occasions.
Oh just another thought if the VOC's are really an issue even in the industrial world will that mean cars will now be painted with water based paints?
And why does the EPA not want us yankees to use oil based paints but you rebels can still burn yer trash out in yer back yard
And why can't californians weed by hand in the fields?
Oh and what about vinyl and latex adhesion issues?
And by golly why do things have to change again Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
[ September 24, 2004, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Eric if you can find a colortones chart you can mix about any color you want with bulletin colors.
[ September 24, 2004, 05:54 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
Posted by Daye Roberts (Member # 3860) on :
Seattle here...
Well, if it is happening on the east coast, I'm sure the west coast will be next. We used to use only one-shot and Matthews but recently have been using BM oils. I have tried the latex but vinyl will not stick to it.
So...are there other options out there? I'm already feeling like we had better be prepared.
Posted by Rovelle W. Gratz (Member # 4404) on :
Leave it up to California and we'll be painting with milk-based whitewash.
Then again, maybe not...it might overwork the illegal aliens that it would take to turn out the higher volume.
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
Think of it this way, we won't have to have water based vs oil based arguments anymore...Now if only California falls into the Pacific Ocean, we can get rid of the freaks, Immagrants and the gas hoggin SUV's....
[ September 24, 2004, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: Rick Chavez ]
Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
Rove, The latex should be banned because of the Latex Intolerant people and I for one wouldn't use Milk Paint because I'm Lactose Intolerant. Actually, I'm basically intolerant, period.
Rick, We wouldn't allow CA to fall into the ocean, think of all THAT pollution. Too much "fertilizer".
[ September 25, 2004, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: Gene Golden ]
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
I'm just wonderin' . . .
If enough of us stand up and pitch a fit, plead latex-intolerance and create a class action suit for the industry, could we get them to end the proposed madness?
If they can "save-the-whales", "save-the-spotted-owl", "save-the-gas" and "save-the-homeless" . . . . can we not save-the-oil-paint?
Where are our rights? Where is OUR freedom of choice??
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Light the torches Sheila, I'll grab my pitchfork
[ September 25, 2004, 09:13 AM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
You've implied hay-bale burning.... No no . . we must burn something relative to the oppression . . . . yet, nothing that would add to or aggrevate the ozone depletion or global warming. It has to be something that will illustrate our demands perfectly and will produce a full million-man march on the EPA. . . . .like burn a 30x100 ft banner lettered only "E P A" with latex or somethin' . . ..... I'm sorry. Am I thinkin' too small?
. . . .I'm sure you creative heads can think of something. The riot-inciter is exhausted. . . . . all this slow-motion, post-to-post chat
PS: OK, there are not a million sign painters?? But there are millions of people who use oil-paints. And just think, WHERE would we be today without the pioneers of oil-paints . . like DeVinci, Monet, Chagall, etc. Logos like Sherwin Williams "Paint the World" will become a joke . . .
[ September 25, 2004, 09:26 AM: Message edited by: Sheila Ferrell ]
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Eric,
Benjamin Moore is dropping the High Gloss Alkyd Impervo paints. The local hardware store has already pulled the line from the shelves, but only that line. There are still many other oil based paints available by BM and other manufacturers.
The real trick is to not become dependant on one brand or line of paint, but find compatible paint alternatives. Ace, True Value and others carry their own label on paints....many are oil based and make a good substitute for the BM Impervo paints..
Hope this helps... Rapid
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
g'YA Ray. What a boring answer.
I tho't you'd think of something for us to burn. I thought you'd get ideas to make an actual Letterhead movie based on a the true story of this event.
I thought you'd see the bigger picture..... that if the oil-paint paint industry can be curtailed in one company it can be done so in all of them..... Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
Sheila, You know how it works, just IMPLY that there will be a million painter march. Call it that, set a date in Washington for the march (make it a nice month, maybe while the cherry trees are blossoming), and 50 of us will show up. We will pour latex paint onto an intolerant person (refer to photo of flaming monk for non-violent protests). The writhing of this sacrificial person (maybe we need a Latex Intolerant lamb?),should make all of the politicians rethink this. WAIT A MINUTE! That's it... tell the politicos that we can no longer produce their CAMPAIGN SIGNS. That's the way to get this silliness stopped!!!
Posted by John Deaton III (Member # 925) on :
Because Bob, most people go to wal mart to get their paint for their houses. 8.99 a gallon and guaranteed for two days. duh. Anyway, if you use the right latex paint, high quality acrylic, they wont fade,and as of yet I have had no vinyl adhesion problems. Oils fade and chalk too easily for me. I used one shot for many years but after removing the lead, the quality went down. I still use them for lettering and such, but no backgrounds. They wont last as long as acrylic. Just my opinion though.
[ September 25, 2004, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: John Deaton III ]
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
John . . . . OILS fade? An' chalk too much for you???
Man. That is SO weird 'cause it's about just the opposite here . . .but your climate is no so differ'nt there than ours, is it??
Our humididty may be higher . . .we do have a lotta mildew problems.
(I never use One-shot for back grounds either)
[ September 25, 2004, 03:27 PM: Message edited by: Sheila Ferrell ]
Posted by Harris Kohen (Member # 2139) on :
I think that gene hit the nail on the Proverbial head. Tell the politicians that we cannot make anymore campaign signs and banners and theyll have a schitt fit and veto anything that makes the use of these so-called bad VOC's illegal.
Note: I realize any contact with virtually anything(including somone else) is bad for our health, but hey cant I have my one minute of glory?
Posted by timi NC (Member # 576) on :
Didn't the govt. allow for a variance for artists pigments when they outlawed lead in paint a few years back? Seems they would do the same for us as I would like to think we are just that,....artists
Posted by Alicia B. Jennings (Member # 1272) on :
Million Painter March!! And no more Political Signs !!!
Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
Our new slogan: Write On, Brothers and Sisters!
Watch this page for further "coverage". We'll meet at the Washington "Mahl".
[ September 25, 2004, 09:18 PM: Message edited by: Gene Golden ]
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Timi,
One Shot paints were given a 50 year grandfather clause as an "industry specific material" but a court ruling sometime later negated it. Seems that some kids were using signs as lollypops or something stupid like that.
Sheila
Young Obi Wanna Letter knows the ways of the force, but has only been taught by his mentor, Qui Gone Fising, who has now retired from the Jedi council and its happily living on Malibu Beach carving chess pieces for sale on Ebay. Obi must now strike out on his own in the sign biz, only to find out that everything he is painting with and on has been changed by the evil Sith lord..Epee-ay. As the young painter finally meets Epee-ay in battle, the dark lord reveals he is Obi's "BIG BROTHER" and has been watching over his safety all along.
I could take off on this, but...let's be realistic. Marching on Washington against a department of government making changes in paint for health and safety concerns...well...don't doubt you'll have just as many people marching against you.
Personally, I'd rather not have hazadous material concerns at all, and if it means keeping up with the changes, doing a litle R&D in the shop and rethinking things...cest la vie.
Some things coming up in the not too distant future...and the questions they raise. Impact resistant cars with plastic bodies that are colored. So much for touch ups at the body shop. How do you keep the static out of it when you're lettering it? Will there be any?
Water based clear coats for automotive finishes. Too many questions to list here.
Silicone additives for reducing fisheyes in equipment/automotive paints and clearcoatings. Will paint stick to it?
Things change. Changing with it is easier than fighting city hall sometimes. Rapid
PS: Forget the "NO Political Signs" approcah....there's plenty of vinyl shops out there who'll knock them out for a favor later. Why not? They do race cars for free...
[ September 26, 2004, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: Ray Rheaume ]
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
ACK!! Don't listen to him you people!! He's one of them!! An ecology-rights wacko if there ever was one.
(lol)
I should've know Ray, when your movie-lines mentioned nothing about saving the paint. And the fact that like so many of us who just missed 'em, you're curiously trapped in the 60's.
LOL Ray, you know I'm jes' pickin'.
You bring up more new futuristic things that are starting to worry me too.
I DON'T NEED THIS!!!
~Vehicles made of coloured plastic bodies????? Are they gonna be enamel, or even vinyl receptive?? If not, they will surely be "impact" reisitant, in more ways than one.(But I see a bright side: NO more mags )
~ Imron paint a'reddy has silicon in it or as the Dupont people told me "plasticisers"... whatever that is, lettering enamel will NOT stick to it without an adhesion promoter...another serious chem. paint that they will find a way to make extinct too because it works.
I think movies ARE the way to go. They seem to affect change & influence better than protests. Your new movie will have to be totally about what all the letterheads did after real paint materials became extinct. The Mad-Max character will be the Letterheads hero because he has a huge cache` full of the real One-shot & other banned materials. The regular people will all be amazed at the vibrant, shiney, things all the Letterheads paint until it's discovered they have this paint, then the war is on and "Mad-Max" changes the course of history by bringin back what shudd'a never been taken.
But I digress . . .
Water-based clear??? Ashes-to-ashes-dust-to-dust. How strong & long-lasting could a water based clear be???
Posted by Mark Matyjakowski (Member # 294) on :
Hahahaa, I'm now picturing the march on Washington. A million chanting sign people carrying empty sticks to protest not being able to paint signs.
Posted by Harris Kohen (Member # 2139) on :
I believe Chrysler has been using water based paints or at least testing them for the past 5 years. I really dont have much information on that But I did hear it was in testing stages, maybe someone else has more info.
Face it Ray is right even if it does hurt to admit it,.. history tells us that we are going to have to change with the times and keep up with technology, and the manufacturers of the things we use also will have to keep up with these evil changes being forced upon us by the people we vote for.
I thought I had rights until one day they created the EPA. Look at cars and other items we live with these days, its all regulated by our govt. Why? you ask, because it puts money in politicians pockets thats why.
Check out the new automotive emissions laws California just passed. Get ready people, catalytic converters on Motorcycles. Lawn mowers, snow blowers, chain saws etc. cant be far behind.
Face it, the tree huggers are winning. But if the final outcome is a better life for everyone I know, maybe change isnt such a bad thing afterall.
OK time for me to step down from my proverbial soapbox.
"Gimme lead or gimme death!"
Posted by Gene Golden (Member # 3934) on :
Okay, so we're using Vinyl to letter everything? Somewhere, somehow, SOMEBODY is using VOC's to produce this stuff. Plastic vehicle skin? VOC's at the factories, yes? Don't tell me that, SOMEWHERE along this production line, there isn't a quantity of bad stuff being used... all in one place no doubt. But that's probably okay if it's in Mexico or China, right? Let's say that CA, PA, WA and MA, or wherever, outlaw Oils. Ray, you know that vinyls will never replace the cost effectiveness of ten thousand lawn signs screenprinted. So here we are in PA, etc., having to circumvent the laws by subcontracting to a state that is not required to comply with a silly law. So our local politicians will effectively be buying contraband items. We can't import Cuban cigars, how can we import signs that would not be allowed in our own states? Of course, you can buy a ratty, smoke billowing car in Nevada and drive it around all over California, as long as it's registered in NV, can't you? So I guess we COULD buy the products elsewhere even though it is contrary to our OWN state's laws. Or, how about buying alcoholic beverages from a neighboring state because the beer is 6.0 instead of 3.5 alch content. If you drink it in your state, is it then illegal? You can't SELL it, but you CAN use it. So we can jump over to MD to buy our paints. If it's not Federally regulated, then MD suppliers should be able to deliver the contraband to us. Yes, NO??? I don't know, but this is tiring.
[ September 26, 2004, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: Gene Golden ]
Posted by William Bass (Member # 4929) on :
An ancient roman official (and I cant remember who), said something like (it's not an exact quote, but I'm still gonna use the quote thingy)...
quote:We used to suffer from too much crime, now we suffer from too many laws.--Some Roman Official
I am really biting my finger....must not discuss politics...must not discuss politics...not even CANADIAN politics....uhhh. (faints). (several minutes pass by). (slowly recovers). (finds something to laugh at on this post).
quote:Hahahaa, I'm now picturing the march on Washington. A million chanting sign people carrying empty sticks to protest not being able to paint signs.--Mark Matyjakowski
Mark, the mental picture is hilarious.
[ September 26, 2004, 12:43 PM: Message edited by: William Bass ]
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Man, I got a funny picture painted in my head on this one... There would be a picture of an angry mob of letterheads carrying blank signs. The photo caption would read "thousands converge on our nations capitol to protest unknown cause". For the record, I would love to switch to substances that would have less of an environmental impact, but what are my choices? Obviously, vinyl is not the answer to saving the environment, but we're stuck with it because there's no one speaking out for us. Where's these great sign organizations like ISA or USSC when you need them to speak up? - never mind they're too busy schmoozing the vinyl manufacturers to notice us.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by William Bass (Member # 4929) on :
environmentally sound sign = cave drawing
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
I't's going to be an interesting contrast...seeing all the green grassy enviro friendly world thru all the rusty... flaky and corroded buildings while driving past in a car with all the paint that has fallen off of.
But I'll sure feel safer knowing someone out there is protecting me by doing away with my livelyhood.
Ya know what I mean?
Posted by Alicia B. Jennings (Member # 1272) on :
As I see it. Plastic cars, made elsewhere, plastic. houses, Vinyl siding, plastic flooring, and other pastic househould goods are okay. Hummers, and other gas guzzling cars, good. Air conditioning and the waste of water on golf courses and lawns,good. But Oil based are bad? I really think it's really all about big business wanting people to buy more crap than they need, then to repair and take care of what they have. I might sound crazy but I think big business has more control on these issues than we think. I leave a lot more waste using vinyl than paint. But we all know that. But the CEO's of companies like 3M or Momsanto would rather have the world thinking that oil based paints are all so bad and terrible. And therefore be banned. At what point do we stand up and say "NO!.' You guys have no idea what your talking about. If anything, I would say that maybe such "Dangerous and hazardous" products can only be used by licensed and trained individuals. Kinda of a compromise.Wow,did I say this? My brain is tired now.
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
Well, I pretty much rely on BM Impervo for my backgrounds. This should be interesting. Wonder when they were going to mention it to me.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Oh man . . . . ~I was just thinkin' of all the chems and stuff that go into the manufacturing of vinyl....
~Ms. Alicia has reminded me that we do by far generate much more waste with vinyl.
~What if some bird or cute baby rabbit or somthin' gets all wrapped up in waste vinyl?
~What if "they" start comin' in wantin' to know how we dispose of waste vinyl ?
~Just how long does it take, say, a baseball size wad if premium vinyl to degrade?? Or transfertape?
~And just for the record, if you do actually know how to dispose of your used paint and mineral spirits, what is their final end? ~Where does all that stuff allegedly go? ~And who is the alleged person who allegedly does it?
I'm just askin' . . . . .
Posted by William Bass (Member # 4929) on :
I'll say it again... As far as I know, in my county, NO ONE is allowed to throw paint away...not even sign contractors with dumpster service.
When I called the dumpster service to check into it, they said I couldn't throw paint into their dumpsters...seems like even used paint cans were prohibited.
Said I had to wait for an "amnesty" event that occurs every so often, which is apparently an event where people with illegal trash can finally get rid of it...I never checked into it beyond that...I suppose my shed shall just collapse from the old paint in it...litterally...it leans on the side all the paint cans are on...it didn't do that till I put all the paint cans in one place.
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
The national rule for VOC compliance in auto finishes took effect in 1997,architectural VOC laws have been in the planning stages since since about 1993..auto finish rules went into place first because its easier to demonize an industry most people are not involved in than to tell mr&mrs suburban clueless that they cant have oil based paint for their houses...one is decidedly more politically correct than the other....thats what starts the sheep squawking and how you lose votes..sound familiar? VOC rules arent the result of big business,they're the result of innefficient bandaid legislation passed by people with their heads up their as*ses who will do or say anything truthful or not to justify their elected position and continue to allow those who wish to live in a rose colored bubble.....big business either goes along for the ride or demonized to the general public,they have no choice but to tow the line. It now costs businesses way more inthe way of manufacturing costs,regulatory compliance,training the end user,disposal,packaging and in some cases honoring warranties,then people get ****ed when the cost of the goods goes up...not only that but regulations have effectively shut a large protion of people out of certain markets because of the cost of them doing business is prohibitive..i can tell you personally we've lost out on being able to bid on certain contracts because we either didn't have a product that met ridiculous specs or what we could offer was so technical and so expensive the job niehter warranted it nor was economically feasible...try analyzing things like that for an economic impact rather than choosing to believe that we're making the world 1/16th of a degree warmer....the earth goes thru natural warming and cooling cycles on its own since the beginning of its existence,good luck thinking you're going to interfere with that or stop it thru legislation.Lowering VOC contents of paint has done absolutely nothing to alter any kind of air quality test or standard,but it does change drastically the scope and use of the products. It by and large makes them cost more,less efficient,vastly more complicated for the end user to use & more controlled by regulatory standards at the city state and federal levels...all which require accompanying beauracracy thus $$$$$$. Look sometimes at the label on a can of automotive paint and you'll probably see SCAMQD COMPLIANT......that means that the entire nation and anything imported must meet not only federal state and local rules,but a separate set of rules that pertain to certain southern california air management districts...theres efficiency for you. My personal favorite was to remove the carbon based VOC's from automotive finishes because of a concern about enviromental effects....and replacing those compounds with largely isocyanate based products which now require full body fresh air suits and exposure and containment systems just to be used within safety limits and are fairly deadly neurotoxins......but we have some idiots who believe we've now made things safer for the world around us......think of bhopal india then take an honest look at the big picture. I'm not real familiar with language on the rules for architectural stuff but if its anything like the automotive rules,theres enough loopholes to where you wont see any of it disappear for awhile...ex say it takes effect dec 31..up until 11:59 12/31 they can manufacture all they can store then are allowed to sell it even if it takes 4yrs to get rid of it...or they're allowed to manufacture it for export,sell it to an international reseller then let them resell it in the USA...or simply change the intended use for the product ie that lacquer isnt for a car,its for a piano. There's way more you could say about this as always,but it isnt going to make it make more sense...just remember that these rules are both installed and praised by people who dont have a clue to what the products do.
[ September 26, 2004, 11:46 PM: Message edited by: Gavin Chachere ]
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
Don't take this as gospel or even advice,but in a lot of cases waiting until the paint has hardened in the can and become solid waste you can throw it away...you explain that one....check your local law you might be surprised as to what you can do with it or even what they do with it..or ask someone like Safety Kleen
[ September 26, 2004, 11:47 PM: Message edited by: Gavin Chachere ]
Posted by E. Balch (Member # 3545) on :
For a good scare ... just do a google search for illegal paint disposal.
ernie
Posted by William Bass (Member # 4929) on :
I'll definitely do the Google. Might check out the laws...who is Safety Kleen?
The sign contractors and paint stores around here have dumpsters...what?...does the dumpster service think they are NOT throwing paint in there sometimes (or alot)? And then there's the printers in town...I suppose THEY never throw illegal stuff in the dumpsters either.
Get right down to it, the laws do not actually prevent pollution at all, they just move the problems to another state or country and make life a big bureaucratic mess for everyone...which means money for officials.
On a sad note... We had a man in Pensacola, who was well known in the community; the EPA told him that his property was unsafe due to some buried chems or something (that supposedly a previous business had put there). EPA said he had to close down and clean it up and he couldn't sell the land. The clean up was going to cost some unbelievable price. The man, whom many people loved, committed suicide so his family could get the insurance money. Later the EPA discovered they had made a mistake of some sort...now an autoparts store onws the building.
Posted by William Bass (Member # 4929) on :
I'm sure my county's maintenance people only use watercolors on everything. lol.
EPA officials probably ride bicycles only and make sure the painting contractors they hire to paint their houses make their own paints out of berry juices, colored clays, and dried egg yolks. yuk yuk.
[ September 27, 2004, 03:24 PM: Message edited by: William Bass ]
Posted by John Largent (Member # 4606) on :
Gavin has told you how it is . . . those of you who claim to be Strict Ecologists can take about 75% of the blame along with a Government Bureaucracy that can't operate without you and your NIMBY attitudes.
When the Sierra Club quits driving SUV's and Flying Gulfstreams, then I will start listening to them! Till then, they can Kiss My A--!
Posted by TransLab (Member # 470) on :
I figure if I had to look up the term, so do others.
Volatile Organic Compounds (VOC's) are organic chemicals that have a high vapor pressure and easily form vapors at normal temperature and pressure. The term is generally applied to organic solvents, certain paint additives, aerosol spray can propellants, fuels (such as gasoline, and kerosene), petroleum distillates, dry cleaning products and many other industrial and consumer products ranging from office supplies to building materials. VOC's are also naturally emitted by a number of plants and trees.
Posted by William Bass (Member # 4929) on :
I'll bet pine tree emit it. Don't we make turpentine from pine sap.
I'm really FOR treating the environment responsibly, but that would mean...SUBSISTENT FARMING...and, I don't know about other countries, but public schools in the US make that sound like a step above death. (My grandparents on my dad's side might have a different opinion...they didn't hardly realize there WAS a depression...cows give milk and crops grow REGARDLESS of what happens on Wall Street...)
Y'all think we're about to go back to subsistent farming?
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
LOL John, yer first paragraph up there . . . well stated
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![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)