looking into buying an EDGE II with cutter. Wondering people input ( & -) on the purchase of this machine and the omega software? This is a big investment to had to my two year old business. I've managed without it for two years but think I could use this type of equipment if I had it. Thanks for your comments Denis
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Denis...I have only been in the business for 12 years now. I don't have a digital printer. But I do have a fellow Letterville member, with an Edge, to whom I sub contract any work like that.
At this point I can't justify the expense of buying one because my total digital print work only amounts to a small percentage of my annual sales.
If and when the demand gets to the point of justifying it I might buy an Edge or other digital printer. Until then, I'll be happy to provide someone else with a small amount of additional work and just mark up the cost to the end customer.
Bottom line..if you have the demand, buy one..if you just WANT one DON'T. They are an expensive decorative item!!!!!!! Posted by Jon Aston (Member # 1725) on :
Denis:
Short answer...Go for it!!
Long answer...
I would suggest introducing yourself over at 4EDGEtalk.com and asking your question(s) there, too.
If - today - you find yourself doing multiple (ie. more than one) colours in tight registration or alot of smaller text, it is far more productive and profitable to print than it is to cut in vinyl, weed, premask, register and apply. In other words, there is no question that any signshop that can afford an EDGE can make money with one on that basis alone.
The EDGE also presents you with a number of opportunities to sell more products (many of them unique) to your existing customers. If you start with a plan - rather than drifting from job to job or creative impulse to creative impulse, you will make ALOT more money. Plan to understand your customers' business objectives and provide creative solutions that will help them achieve their objectives. Sell to the many strengths of the machine (and what you can do with it).
Anyone who tells you that the EDGE is too small or prints too expensively or is "old technology" simply doesn't know what they are talking about - or wants to sell you an inkjet. EDGE owners will confirm this point of view. Most would give you an appendage before they would give you their EDGE.
Strongly held view...hope it hasn't ofended. Certainly not my intent. Everyone is entitled to their opinion - including me!
Good luck with your decision!
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Yeah! What Jon said lol
I loveeee my edge~
Posted by Stevo Chartrand (Member # 2094) on :
Me tooooooo. I love running that moosheen. It can easily be the biggest money maker in yer shop. You can knock out a 1000 decals and cut them in no time and use really cool lettering effects. If ya think ya got the market for it then give 'er!
Good luck
Stevo
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Everyone's right in their comments. So, if you have an extra $500-$600 US per month laying around. Go for it. The last shop I worked at that owned an Edge II did what Appy suggests. Once we had generated enough income to support the machine through outsourcing, we made the purchase. It only took us a few days to get up and running at full speed because we were already a Gerber shop. In a short period of time, we found many different applications that we could use the machine for and within a few months, we could have paid the machine off with the extra revenue generated. I think this was the exception rather than the rule. We planned on this for a while and our timing was perfect or just dumb luck.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Wayne Berry (Member # 1327) on :
I'd have to go along with Dave on this one. I've been at this stuff for over 18 years now and I've learned to have enough work to pay for any equipment before I buy.
I farmed out Edge work for 2 to 3 years before I felt I could legitimize the investment. I made very good on the work I farmed out and had a very good relationship with the shop that did the work for me. They even help me with workflow issues and little tweeks after I bought my own.
I've always believed in paying for what you have when you get it rule. That is not the way a lot of people do business. I understand that. But I also know that there are a lot of Edge1 & Edge2's on the used market. Often because people are trying to get out from under them & other debt.
Wayne
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I subbed out edge work for 3 years also. I only subbed out work that could be done no other way, but still did my multi-color lay-ups myself & weeded my insanely small & abundant copy myself.
1st year subbed $1000, second year subbed $1500, third year subbed $2500 & decided to buy the machine. Then I started really pushing myself to sell more cooler designs & to learn to create more cooler (as in "cooler.. &more of them... not "more cool".. well that too )
The first year I had the machine someone wanted something impossible, & I probably would have just told them so in earlier days... but instead I said "maybe this will work... showed them what I could do & presto! landed a $22,000.00 contract at a remote 5-star hotel.
I have literally built my business around that machine... enclosing & air-conditioning my office (after 3 hot, dusty years) to create a dust-free environment, selling off screen-printing equipment, & knocking out walls to reclaim blue-collar shop space to expand my white collar (plus random 1-shot drops)office environment to make room for an assistent to help keep up with the demand for EDGE printed signs & decals.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
forgot to say in retrospect, I maybe should have bought the machine at least 1 or 2 years earlier... but your current cash flow is a factor in that decision. Also your ambition & your market.
Around here, with enough ambition to show up, answer the phone, & strive to provide good customer service (& a little creative talent ) anyone could do well & land enough work to pay the bills!
Posted by Dan Streicher (Member # 4515) on :
After selling them in my previous life, we don't have one now and it wouldn't be a good investment for us as that is not the type of work we do, it is a EXCELLENT machine for the type of work that it does....there really is no competition, although there are other machines that do similar types of printing I'm not naming names.....they just don't compete or compare.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
GO FOR IT DO IT YOU WON'T REGRET IT I LOVE MY EDGE II
Posted by Bob Stephens (Member # 858) on :
My nearby competitor who have been true blue Gerber shop, own an edge. They have since jumped ship to the Roland print/cut machine, same as I have. They have flat out stated that the new machine is hands down better than the edge. I also run the new Roland and have to agree. You will seldom find an edge user who will admit that it’s not the great machine they purport it to be. Thirty thousand for a complete setup to print 11-7/8” strips is just ridiculous.
Definitely do your researching before you lay down serious money on any piece of new equipment and keep a very open mind. The edge is about seven years old? Technology has come a long way since then.
As for other peoples advice, sub out as much as possible until you are certain you have enough work to invest in new equipment to do it in house.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
I agree with Bob, Be sure to count the cost, and sub it out to see if the market is there. I did do that for a while. I STILL stand by Gerber tho.
[ July 25, 2004, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Bob,
10 years old technology, tested and proven, unlike your Roland counterpart. It may not be the newest bell and wistle but it can still spin cirlces around inkjet depending on your market and intended use.
why would 12" height be a problem? never has for me, the one time I needed to do a job without a seam I subbed it out to the maxx. spot colors are solid dry instanly and still outlast any ink unlaminated.
Oh and what about this print and cut machine, it seems that Roland totes a 2 machines in one, funny thing is to get more than 2 years outdoor you need to laminate them, gee that would require another machine. Kinda blows that pitch out the window.
so let's recap you print on one machine, take it out put it in a laminator, take it out of the laminator, put it back in the original machine that you printed with to cut it. wow thats a real time saver.~
[ July 25, 2004, 10:41 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Take a bow, Bob!!
Posted by greg baker (Member # 3337) on :
But can you do a vehicle wrap then a 1200 wide poster followed by 7m x 1200mm banner? As you can see, its "horses for courses". Do your homework mate and make sure you buy the right machine because they all cost a lot of money in the beginning but if you choose the right equipment for yourself then it will pay itself off in no time. Research, Research,Research, then sub the work out until you are convinced.
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
Forget the constant argument over Roland vs. Gerber vs. whoever. It's like beating a dead horse and annoying.
Questions: What do you want to do with it? What is your intended market? What do you need in a machine to fulfill the demands of that market?
Now, what machine meets those specs?
If you're planning on doing billboards, 11" panels would probably be annoying and 600 dpi overpriced overkill. Know what I mean Vern?
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Neverrrrr Kissy Neverrrrr forget~
Did we forget when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor? Noooooooooooooooo.
I was busting Bob's Post because you are right he just forgot to mention what market he uses his printer for. And in what he told me it is not the same as most sign shops.
so thereeee Posted by Amy Brown (Member # 1963) on :
Thank you Kissy! I was just thinking, here we go again! Same ole debate.
Posted by Myra Grozinger (Member # 327) on :
Everything that Jon Aston said. Until I recently upgraded ( to an Edge LE and a Gerber GS 15 plotter) I ran an Edge Trunnion and cut with a 4B. I bought the Trunnion used from Hyatt's, and it paid for itself and made me way more versatile and more profitable right away.
(Bob R: did the Germans bomb Pearl Harbor before or after they bombed Hiroshima?)
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Ouch Myra. I can't remember.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Myra you would have to watch a John Belushi Movie titled 1941 to get that one hahaha.
( it was a joke just in case ) Posted by Denis E. Renaud (Member # 4610) on :
Thanks all for your opinion on purchasing the edge. I have worked with an EDGE "classic" (first model ever made)on my previous employment before starting my own biz. I 'm filling out the leasing papers tonight and hopefully by next week have the delivery of my new money making machine (EdgeII w/Gs15 plotter, omega 2.0, and The salesman giving me $500 free materials).The price and timing is good for me right now.! Once I get rolling with this machine I'll post some of the work.
Thanks Again
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Enjoy!
Posted by Jon Aston (Member # 1725) on :
What Bob says!
Did my old pals at ND GRAPHICS tell you about The Idea Book? If they didn't, ask. There are some other handy marketing tools available too. ND's best EDGE-related resource: Ted Nesbitt Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Gerber 1
Roland 0
I was as nervous as you are. Today, with my paid for equipment, I am enjoying the creativity that is truly Gerber! Enjoy yourself, and love what you do. And always remember, you are paying less than I did.
Regards,
[ July 27, 2004, 09:24 PM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
Posted by greg baker (Member # 3337) on :
Good luck Dennis Ihope it all works out for you
Posted by Source Signs (Member # 1164) on :
Denis, I sweated BIG bullets wondering about my decision to purchase my Edge. I have it about three months...and it is already making me money, working as a great sign tool, saving me time on complex logos that I would normally have to cut, weed & mask, I have said 'Yes' to many more jobs that I usually have to turn away or sub out. My first payment ($500.Ish) was paid yesterday...... and I know this is the right decision. I did choose the Edge over the Edge II, as their was about ten grand difference in price for a little faster machine and few other benefits. I also did extensive research on other thermals and inkjets....many machines print direct onto banner material, (then you have to sew and grommet that material...more time, labour and money). I can lay a printed decal onto my 'Banana Banner' and you cannot tell that the decal is not printed onto it. Many inks need a couple of hours to dry,(I don't have time to wait, nor a place to put it...that to me is unacceptable). Many needed lamination (more cost and time)...My largest job was an enclosed trailer....logos were 4' high x 6 feet wide....the Edge was perfect. The seams are next to invisible and the customer was thrilled. The Edge Panels actually worked in my favor as the decal was over rivets and a larger decal would have been difficult for me to handle ..outside,up a ladder, by myself, with a slight wind and the air full of pollen. Most other jobs can be rotated or positioned for the least amount of seams/overlaps and also with some larger machines the waste factor was enormous. With the 15" materials required for the Edge I can double duty them with a Roland cutter I already own. No Waste. When I subbed out I had to wait a week to get the product...now I can have it ready in hours...on my terms. I can print onto metallic vinyls, holographic vinyls, any color of vinyl for some neat effects....can the other printers do that? ....GO FOR IT! You will never look back. Sue
Posted by greg baker (Member # 3337) on :
Denis I tjink the question you should be asking is" which machine should I buy first".Theres no stopping you now, once you have paid this off get yourself a inkjet, that will make you an allround sign shop, which is what we will do in the near future. I dont know why we are comparing these machines to each other, they are 2 different types printers. Its like comparing soccer to grid iron, they are both a game of football, but are played completly differently and have different outcomes.
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
Well when I started this new venture 51/2 years ago, I bought the "Best".. that is an Edge, Envision 375 plotter, and GA. And to go with that I put up about $50.000 more in borrowed money from the banks to buy all the other equipment... I have 2 more payments, and I have never missed not one payment, or was late for that matter, I would'nt have been able to do that with a Roland Machine. Today we have 6 employees and we Have just been voted by a local magazine as the "Best in Newfoundland" in the Sign Shop Category. 2 years in a row.
Thanks Gerber!
I'm looking at Inkjet now, that will make us a more rounded out shop..
GOOD LUCK!
Posted by Jon Aston (Member # 1725) on :
Hey - Congrats Neil!!
I hope you are planning to use that award to your greatest advantage!
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Good for you Neil!!!
Just another satisfied, successful user of great technology!
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