Well against my better judgement I sold a prismatic sign foam letter job today.
I know I can do it I just am leary of the foam in this area... since it hails so much here.
Anything anyone here can think of that I need to know about actual cutting and forming these babies will be appreciated.
The letters will be 10" tall Eurostyle...I'm thinking I will use 1' or 1 1/2" foam and cut them back to nearly 1/4" at the back edge...any advise.
I've even condidered having them done on a c&c is there a program for that?
I'm also thinking about a brushed aluminum or white gold finish...any comments on that?
I would think the finish would create it's own shadows ...am I kidding myself?
Posted by Henry Barker (Member # 174) on :
Monte not sure of all your answers, if you do it with a router Karyn has Artcam I believe, and you can rout prismatic letters with that, Gerbers Autocarve has a prismatic feature. We have been experimenting with coating eps foam with Styrospray, which gives great results and can be then painted with carpaint or whatever.
Here's a link to a competitor to me that works just with eps foam (styrofoam, polysyrene) much cheaper than HDU, and now with the right coatings, can be made to last outside. Just another angle.
Edit to say go in under "utomhusskyltar" which mean outdoor signs, and see what they make, no prismatic stuff as he works with a Croma CNC hotwire machine, but that can be done as mentioned above on a router.
[ June 24, 2004, 06:59 PM: Message edited by: Henry Barker ]
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Monte,
Don't know if this will help (or even make sense for that matter), but around here there are more than a few signs with roofs over them.
Sorta like this....
The better ones have lighting above them, hidden from sight by the roofing. Dimensional letters really look cool in those cases.
So much for the hail stones hitting the sign....lol. Just a thought.... Rapid
Posted by Bob Stephens (Member # 858) on :
Go for it Monte. I use prismatic foam letters a lot on my signs. The look is fantastic...
And don't worry yourself about the hail. Hail damage would occur on just about any sign. Thats what insurance is for.
Posted by FranCisco Vargas (Member # 145) on :
Monte, I just started a drawing for a monument sign for the front of my place, I had seen some breadted pillars that I wanted but found out they were going to have a serious cost and are made out of foam. I will just get some sonar tubes and make my own, lot cheaper. What they do is wrap an adhesive mesh around the foam and coat it with a bond, then apply the stucco with a hopper. But on mine I want to do is a dash coat to match my home, so it will have a textured look. They say it holds up pretty good. I have been noticing almost all the new facia borders on building are having that done, and it's all foam. Except it wrapped and sprayed with cement, so that's why they last outdoors so good, unless some fool bangs on it. Not sure if this answers your question, but just thought I would pass that info I found out today.
Posted by Jean Shimp (Member # 198) on :
Monte, we have just started using a product that is a hard coating for foam - it's call Ura-shel by demandproduct.com. You might want to look into this as a coating for the foam. There are also some new products that simulate a metal finish that can be applied to the foam. I have some info at the shop - let me know if you're interested and I'll forward the site to you. It's not the super expensive stuff.
Posted by Murray MacDonald (Member # 3558) on :
Monte, I've done prismatic foam letters by hand(!) and covered them with metallic vinyl...3 years ago and they still look good. I would try having them sprayed with truck bedliner and then paint them if I were to do it again, which I will no doubt. Luck! MUR
Posted by Joe Rees (Member # 211) on :
Hey Jean - I'd be interested in more info about that Ura-shel. The url didn't work, is that the right address for sure?
Monte, we have done several prismatic jobs in foam. Sure you could do them on a CNC, but what fun is that? Here's the way I do it;
First, realize that any letter you drop while handling will break instantly (and there'll be lots of handling). I recommend backing up the foam first with dibond or some other substrate, but it's not critical. Anyway, cut out all your letters.
Second, use a router with a 45 degree (or greater) chamfer bit with a bearing to rout away the majority of the face. If you have a large enough bit it will meet in the middle and practically do the entire job for you. If your bit is too narrow get a bigger one - it'll pay for itself on that one job. Our biggest chamfer is about 2" with a 1/2" shank and has to be used with our big plunge router. Smaller 1/4" shank bits work great in a smaller router or laminate trimmer which is easier to maneauver. I'd like to find a shallower bits someday, like 20 to 30 degrees.
Third, use files, rasps, sandpaper, emery boards or chisels to sharpen up your inside corners, and to define the center ridge line where the chamfer was not wide enough to meet. It'll take about 2 minutes to route and maybe 10 more minutes per letter to tune. Especially easy for a consistent stroke letter line Eurostyle. Gets a bit trickier on scripts and serif styles.
Then prime and paint as usual. By the way, another good reason for using dibond as a backer, it's great for screwing into from behind for blind mounting or for attaching stud mounts. Here's an example of a prismatic on top and a roundover underneath, both backed with dibond.
Posted by Bob Stephens (Member # 858) on :
Joe that's one hell of a nice sign!
Posted by Murray MacDonald (Member # 3558) on :
Thats interesting is that similar to what industrial polymers sell? Thats also a 2 part product but a 50/50 mix. leaves a really nice smooth finish on styrofoam. We can't buy HDU in large sheet sizes over here,well we can through the UK but with exchange rates, and freight etc, it becomes too expensive. We have to make do with smaller sizes of actually a much better product, used in automotive tooling, a really nice dense HDU made by cibatool. So I did quite alot of work with styrofoam before getting a router, and now see lots of ways to use it now and coat for outdoors hence posting here.
What are you using your coatings for Jean?
This is a job for a band who are on tour now its 8ft x 8ft styrofoam coated with Styrospray 715
and then spraypainted with waterbased paints, which, the job is nothing special but it was fun coating the foam. I made a reference on a post about bedliners because its made by the same company, and might interest others doing dimensional signs.
Joe Rees....lovely work really nice really enjoyed seeing that! Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
Henry, I'm not familiar with the polymer products you mentioned. We have used the IreShell only one time so far. We used it over styrofoam that was a filler piece sandwiched between two sign faces to make the sign look thick. The Ureshell is easy to work with - you can brush or roll it on. The UreShell finish is not rock hard but it is definitely enough to protect the styrofoam from prolonged exposure to weather and small abrasions. Ultimately we would like to use styrofoam to make monument -type signs and hard-coat them. Styrofoam is very cheap and available. By the way, thanks for the pictures you posted, your sign looks great. So does Joe's.
Posted by Jay Nichols (Member # 2842) on :
Thanks for that tip, Jean. Ureshell is exactly what I've been looking for an upcoming project.
Since we're on the subject of coatings, any advice on finishing hdu with stucco, or a stucco-like product? I'm not getting the answers I need with search. Customer wants a monument sign with fluted architectural accents and a stucco finish. I want to build it with conc block, attach the hdu elements to it and give everything a stucco finish.
Very nice work, guys.
Posted by Henry Barker (Member # 174) on :
The finish from www.industrialpolymers.com is hard at least if you use 715, and that can be brushed rolled or sprayed, I got samples as well of a softer surface with a metallic pigment, they sent out samples etc before we ordered a few 2 gallon kits.
Posted by Jay Nichols (Member # 2842) on :
Thank you, Henry.
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
Thanx for the info gang...I'll be taking a run at it before the weeks out.
You've all given me some great ideas...we'll just have to dee how it goes from here.
I'll post pics when I'm thru (if I can figure it out again).
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