i DOING A GLASS CHIPPING HOW LONG SHOULD I LET SET THE GLUE? THANKS AT ADVANCED
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
Not sure what you're asking Sal.
How long to cook the glue? When to trim the excess away from your design? Or how long to leave it on the glass?
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Yes Sal more info is needed but first please hit the caps lock button before replying. Posted by Sal Cabrera (Member # 1236) on :
HOW LONG TO LEAVE ON THE GLASS. I 'M NO SURE IF I HAVE TO LEAVE OVER NIGHT. i DID APPLAY THE GLUE I JUST NEED TO KNOW THE RIGHT TIME TO TAKE OFF FROM THE GRASS. SORRY IF I CONFUSUED GUYS . THANKS AGAINT.
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
You don't.
As the glue dries, it'll contract, pulling up slivers of glass with it and removing itself from the glass. Make sure you're very careful about the chips of glue when you're cleaning them up and don't let pets or kids in the area. It's safer to put it in a box while chipping. Check it tomorrow & you'll see what I mean about the glue removing itself from the glass.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
....amd the caps lock is right above the shift key Posted by Ron Percell (Member # 399) on :
Let your panel set until it gels well, then you may place it into a chipping box to finish the process.
After you apply the glue, if you notice any texture from the sand blasting, add more glue to any of those areas.
I try to get a even 1/8 layer of hide glue to get an average chip with fern patterns.
Hide glue should be mixed at 1 part glue to 1 1/2 parts water. Example: use 1 cup of glue, add 1 1/2 cups of water. Let soak 30 min, then slowly heat to 145 degrees.
Warning: Hide glue is Deadly to small children and animals.
Posted by Pete Payne (Member # 344) on :
Hi Folks just thought we'd post a Glue Chipping article we wrote for a magazine with Rick Glawson's help and knowledge. If you still have any questions feel free to call 800-663-9753 anytime GLUE CHIPPING (ICE FLOWERS) One of the most interesting and easy techniques I learned at Letterhead meets is glue chipped glass, which was sometimes referred to as ice flowers because of its resemblance to the beautiful pattern created by frost on a window. Chipping was used extensively from the mid 1800's to the early 1900's to make privacy glass, for ornamentation and borders, and when combined with gold leaf and silvering to create beautiful signs, some of which are worth thousands of dollars to the collectors. In a nutshell, animal hide glue cystals (ground horse hooves) have water added to them, are heated, applied to sandblasted glass, and as the glue drys it literally tears chunks out of the glass, which give you the glue chipped effect. The glass I usually use is 1/4" (6mm) plate glass because it is durable enough for easy handling without breakage (well usually anyways). Thinner or thicker glass will chip equally well, as will laminated safety glass. Tempered glass doesn't chip well at all because of its very hard surface, and may explode even days, or months after being chipped for no apparent reason. The glass must be roughed up by sandblasting to prepare it for glue. Sand blast mask works well to protect the areas you don't want or chip, but I usually use two layers of 4 mil paint mask vinyl. Standard sand can be used for blasting but to get a finer blast, resulting in a clearer, nicer chip, stay back about 2' with the blaster, use about 20 to 30 lbs. air pressure and a high flow of sand. Personally I use Aluminum Oxide, I feel it gives me a very clear chip, I have also built an enclosed cabinet to blast in, which recovers my 180 grit Aluminum Oxide blast medium, this stuff is to expensive to only use once like sand. Whatever you use, just blast enough to take the shine off the glass, not enough to carve into the glass because the glue will grab the edges of the deep area resulting in more plinks and chips beyond the edges of the design. When the blasting is done use high pressure air to blow the dust off or rinse with water and let dry. Do not use cleaners, the film they leave behind will interrupt the adhesion of the glue. To do the chipping we use animal hide glue grade 10X. It is the most consistent and of the correct strength. Some hide glues have fats or plasticizers added to stop shrinkage, but if it won't shrink it won't chip the glass. The dry glue crystals are measured by weight. A household kitchen scale works well. The standard formula is 1 1/2 oz. of dry glue with 3 oz. of water by volume. Less will give you a finer chip, more will give a coarser more radical and less controllable chip but is fine for large open areas. 1-1/2 oz. of dry glue is enough to chip 1 square foot. Since the water is measured by volume, a graduated cylinder or measuring cup is used and the glue and the water are mixed together and left to stand for 1 hour prior to heating. At this stage the glue has swelled and looks like oatmeal. It is now ready to heat. An automatic glue pot is best, or a double boiler works well, but being a stickler for tradition , I use a microwave oven and heat the glue in a plastic coffee cup. The only caution here is the glue must be heated to at least 140 F degrees but never allowed to exceed 150 degrees F. Use short bursts of power and stir in between to bring it gradually up to proper heat, always checking with a microwave thermometer. With the glass laying flat and level pour the glue on the glass and spread it as evenly as possible to get a consistent chip pattern. Once the glue sets up like rubber, cut it using the edge of the mask as a guide for your stencil knife and peel the excess glue and the mask off as you go. When finished the glue should remain only on the areas to be chipped. The next drying stage will leave the glue hard like leather and from here the chipping should occur on its own in about 24 to 36 hours depending on the humidity. The chipping can be hurried along with the careful addition of heat. Again, don't overheat the glue. The goal here is to lower relative humidity so I put the glass back in my blast cabinet with heat lamps where I bring the temperature up to about 120 degrees F, and the humidity drops to between 35 and 45 percent. Be careful not to concentrate the heat on one area of the glass, I learned that one the hard way! You may want to cover the glass with a box or something to contain the bits of glass and glue as they snap loose and fly off, they are very sharp, (learned that the hard way to)! After all the chipping is done, there will be little bits of glue still on the surface. Carefully pry them off with a Stencil knife , then soak the glass with water and scrub with a bristle brush to remove the rest. There you have it, now quit floggin' that dead horse and chip some glue with it! I suggest reading "The Art of Glue-Chipped Glass Signs", by Robert R. Michell it goes into greater detail and has a great photo gallery for reference. Out of print at this point. This is a typed copy of Pete Payne's Article in Signals Magazine March 94. 10 X Glass Chipping Glue 9.90 Per Lb Buy 20 Lb 9.40 Per Lb
P.S. the onlt danger when chipping glue of course is not the glue itself but the shards of glass it produces. Our dog love to chew on a bit of gel hardened glue. And no we don't always put it in a box we carry it in and out of the sun and then the chipping really gets violent. Every area of the world will chip glass differently we had it take 4 hours rarely of course and we've had it take 7 days it all depends on the consistancy of application and humidity, air temp, dryness in your area. I know Larry Whan in Banff can chip glass a whole lot faster than we can here in Southern Ontario Good luck and enjoy Pete & Marj
Posted by Jeff Ogden (Member # 3184) on :
I was wondering if anyone knows more about the animal hide glue. I know that what seems to be available now is the crystalized form, mentioned in the above article and sold by the pound. However I recall that some old church decorators used a formula using rabbit skin glue, which was sold in sheets. Has anyone used this ? Is it still available anywhere ? Just curious. If you have used the rabbit skin variety, how does it compare to what we're calling the horse hoof variety? Also has anyone ever added anything else to the formula?
Posted by Leonard Sappington (Member # 4562) on :
Interesting post...lot of info
I'm gonna try this !!!
Posted by Danny Busselle (Member # 3746) on :
Jeff Rabbit skin glue is still available thru Liquitex ground rabbit skin. many different features of this product. I could talk about for a long time. sheets are no longer available from Liquitex Most large FINE ART Stores carry this product or can order it. Posted by Dave Levesque (Member # 4374) on :
Saw it done and Fred's Meet, it was my first meet so mostly, I did a lot of watching and learning, but since you posted the article and the step by step, I'm going to give it shot.
Thanks for the info.
Dave
Posted by Richard Bustamante (Member # 370) on :
I thought I'd let this thread run its course before I responded with this answer.
After extensive research; Rawson & Evans, US Patent office, and Rick Glawson, I've found that this seems to be a gray area. How long do you let the glue dry, before heating it?
I've done over 100 glass pieces using this glue chipping method. After experimenting with this method using different thicknesses of the glue, different grit of sand, alluminum oxide, and glass bead, humidity, tempeture, and the amount of time to let the glue dry before heating it, I've finely got a consistant chip using this procedure.
Etch glass with "Dry Mix White Sand" (do not breathe. TOXIC)
Leave the mask on the glass.
Apply two thin layers of glass chipping glue. (Just before it dries completely, remove the mask)
(To answer your question) Let the glue dry completely in a cool dry place.
Once the glue is dry, place it out in the sun, or a heat box to start the chipping process.
Why do you let the glue dry before you heat it?
One simple reason; adheasion. The bond between the glue and the glass must have maxium adheasion *before* the chipping process starts, in order to get a clean chipped effect.
"If you should have any other questions, please feel free to ask."
-Rich
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Jeff.....never heard of anyone successfully using rabbit skin glue for glass chipping! It is usually used to adhere gold leaf on vellum , picutre frames, etc. It also requires burnishing with an agate or jade tool.
Duuuh...some day I will learn to use Spellcheck!
[ July 23, 2004, 04:07 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Razz]](tongue.gif)
![[FYI]](graemlins/fyi.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)