I've heard that upwards of 70% of people do NOT believe that we stepped foot on the moon, and that it was a staged event meant to intimidate Russia during the cold war and as a "one-upmanship" ploy to freak out the Soviet Union after they sent the Sputnik into orbit around the earth.
I never really questioned this and remember watching it in black and white on tv as a kid....but then I watched a show debunking the lunar landings as myth where they provided many pieces of evidence which was hard to dispute, along with testimony from ex-NASA officials, as well as a couple of stories about NASA individuals that were closely involved with the "mission" that said we were never on the moon - - and ended up murdered.
You know, the usual conspiracy theorists...but I must say,....after watching the show, listening to the evidence, it really made me wonder...
And why haven't we been back to the moon in so long? Could it be because it's harder to fake it since we no longer have black and white, grainy, blurry tv's to watch?
Seems like in fact it would be easier to fake it today with all the special effects....
I'm kinda on the fence on this...where are you?
Posted by E. Balch (Member # 3545) on :
Some of my college professors were involved with processing the film shot by the astronauts. It was the real thing and it took real experts to get good photos from the film brought back from the moon.
Remember, There are still nuts that think the world is flat too.
ernie
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Hey Todd!!!
In my "Rocket Scientist" days...I worked on the Moon Shot at North American Rockwell, here in California! As a Materials & Processes Engineer and Chemist, I was involved in the Reentry Heat shield, Steering Motors, Escape Tower, and much of the interior equipment. Belive me...it did go to the Moon!
Posted by Matthew Rolli (Member # 4089) on :
Shoot....
I thought I would hear some uplifting plugs for God here....
Tang, and Velcro for only 3.7 trillion dollars... Money well spent;)
Posted by Kimberly Zanetti (Member # 2546) on :
Yes, I believe we went to the moon but if anyone's looking to read a good book (fiction) about NASA faking discoveries check out DECEPTION POINT by Dan Brown. He's the guy who wrote The DaVinci Code. I just finished it and it was very intriguing. It's out in paperback and you can get it at Costco for under $5.
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
This is a shameless and unabashed plg for God.
Let's hear an "AMEN!" from the back of the room!
I believe that we walked on the moon, Elvis is dead, and I AM going crazy...
Posted by Lotti Prokott (Member # 2684) on :
An interesting thing about that moon landing is, that scientists at the time believed, that the moon should have several feet deep of dust on its surface. In fact the, uuhm, the thing they landed in (was it called "Eagle"?) was built accordingly, with large, plate like "feet" and the end of the ladder high above the ground. To everybody's surprise they found only a couple inches of dust. I think it's safe to believe that they would have "staged" that landing according to their expectations.
Posted by Jeremy Vecoli (Member # 2278) on :
That FOX special "debunking" the moon landing was the about the worst piece of crap claiming to be journalism I have ever seen. I only have a high-school science education and I was insulted by the stuff they expected me to believe. Go here to see a scathing point-by-point critique of the show.
Posted by Steve Shortreed (Member # 436) on :
Next thing you know they'll be saying there are still people that paint signs. Poppycock!
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
I worked in New smyrna Beach Flordida and in Daytona Beach Florida during them days. I was fortunate to have built parts of equipment that went to the moon. I find it very hard to believe the money spent on Faking a moon shot. And I watched one shot around 4 in the afternoon as it went skyward. Ill never forget it.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
todd ...what ya smokin??????
Posted by James Donahue (Member # 3624) on :
They should've taken the moon rover and used it to "draw" a huge smiley face in the dust (oh no, Wal Mart was here??) so that anyone could look in a telescope and see it. A guy once told me a really high powered telescope can see stuff they left, but hey, you know what they say about everything you hear...
Yeah Todd, I saw a video like that once, had me wonderin' too.
Controversy has allready arrived in this thread, the statements about the expected dust not being there. It has to do with age.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Curtis.
quote: I find it very hard to believe the money spent on Faking a moon shot.
Why?
Think about it...faking the moon landing would be as profitable as "reality television" is. The government only has the production cost of filming the event, everyone's going to watch it, and when the smoke clears after all the government funding comes in for development, R&D, and the like, they have a pantload of money left to blow on $800 toilet seats, give $100,000 grants to college students who buy a few rubber snakes and let people run them over in Texas in the name of research, $1200 monkey wrenches, and continue to this day to fund some of the most ridiculous research in the world.
I clearly recall, sitting in front of the TV in Gilman, Vermont with the fireplace glowing watching Neil Armstrong set his foot down into the soft soil of the moon. Like most other 8 year old boys back then, astronauts were our heroes and we all dreamed of doing what they did.
The only REAL reason I can imagine to fake the lunar landing was to have everyone in this country believe that John F. Kennedy's goal to reach the moon within the decade had been achieved. Given the general feeling in America after his death, and his quick rise to a neo-martyr figure, I don't think it's too far fetched to imagine.
To a certain degree, in the minds of many back then, he had become the pinnacle of what a president was to be. A modern day King Arthur, with Jackie at his side projecting an image that most every woman admired. The media soon referred to his brief presidency as "Camelot" frequently and still do. He was the first "television" president.
The government was quick to start placing his face on coins and stamps, renaming schools, buildings and streets and saturating his name across this country. Many of his predecessors to this day don't get that kind of recognition.
Legends and heroes don't fail. He said we'd be on the moon within ten years. Fabricated or not, we all watched it and believed we'd done something amazing. Something begun by our "fallen hero".
I don't doubt they went, but if it was a hoax, it sure generated a lot of jobs back then...and even more, national pride.
Times sure have changed. We've become cynical and critical, not only of the here and now, but of the past as well...even the past we remember fondly.
Rapid
[ May 21, 2004, 07:05 AM: Message edited by: Ray Rheaume ]
Posted by TransLab (Member # 470) on :
Oh NO!
What do you mean 'Elvis is dead' ... Say it ain't so Bruce ...
... just ruined my day Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
I remember being 7 and Mom making me come to the living room and watch the images of the moon landing flicker across the screen of the old Zenith. I believed it was real then and I still do. How cool is it that some of us Heads were a part of that momentous event? Love...Jill
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
talking about research grants... I remember hearing that the US spent many thousands of $ inventing a pen/biro that would write in zero gravity, so astronauts could write things down.
The Russians just used pencils instead...
Posted by Dave Draper (Member # 102) on :
My best friend went on to college at the University Of Chicago back in those days, and his prof. brought in a selection of moon rocks for study and from what he told me, him and his fellow students got to help run some tests on these.
Posted by Raymond Chapman (Member # 361) on :
And the same people that believe that our landing on the moon was fake also believe that wrestling is real.
Posted by Jeremy Vecoli (Member # 2278) on :
You cannot use a telescope to see artifacts on the moon from earth. The Hubble telescope has an astonishing resolving power of 0.1 arc-seconds (one-tenth of one-sixtieth of one-sixtieth of one degree). But that means if it was pointed at the earth, it could discern objects only if they were bigger than about 6 inches (under perfect conditions) That's why stories about spy satellites reading licence plates are just stories.
The moon is about 1,000 times farther away from the Hubble Space Telescope than the Earth is. That means that if you pointed the Hubble at the moon, it would have 150-meter resolution. At that resolution, a football stadium occupies maybe one or two pixels of the image. That means that there would be no way to discern the Lunar Excursion Module or any of the other equipment left on the moon. It is just too small to pick up, even with the world's best telescope.
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
Raymond, wrestling is real! Just ask any high school wrestling team.
Rasling is a whole other story. Them fellas & gals sure do lok purty when they rasle on channel 7. Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Edit: Ooops! Double posted by accident.
[ May 21, 2004, 10:12 AM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
My father was a geophysicist and he worked with Gene Shoemaker on the curriculum for training astronauts in geology. I recall various lunar studies around the house when I was young.
One of the most moving things for me was watching on live TV as the astronauts read from the first chapter of Genesis while Apollo 8 orbited the moon on December 24, 1968.
Posted by William DeBekker (Member # 3848) on :
What.. They Read From the Bible on a Publically Funded Project. Ohhhhh Noooo (In a Billy Crystal Voice) This whole Moon Landing thing must be srtricken from the records
Posted by Suelynn Sedor (Member # 442) on :
You mean a government would LIE to the public and the newspeople would promote it???? Say it isn't so!!! Posted by jack wills (Member # 521) on :
I went to da moon a lot in them days and believe me, its real. Didn't use a rocket.........
CrazyJack
Posted by faye adele welsh (Member # 4164) on :
i believe in one person making a statement and 57 others jumping on them, debunking, rebunking,rehashing, and dissecting it all. there will always be nay-sayers, and fanatics. but just for fun.... i hope it never stops. people are opinionated, never boring, and often as full of s**t as christmas turkeys!!viva la difference!!!fiddles.fyi... elvis is alive and captured in velvet at jillbeans house. Posted by Wayne Webb (Member # 1124) on :
Huge metal machines flying through the sky at three times the speed of sound, with people in 'em? You're pullin' my leg.
Movies, music and voices traveling across the airwaves? At the speed of light? from hundreds of miles away to a tiny box in your car? That's absurd
You mean to tell me that you can send pictures, sounds, information over a teeny weeny wire to places thousands of miles away ...at the speed of light?? From a box on your office desk? C'mon
What did you say, using electrons? Wassat?
Destroy a whole city with a single weapon that flies to its target by itself? Computers? Robots? By splitting an atom? What's an atom? Ever seen one?
Making exact copies of animals, plants and...people? you're lyin'.
They went.
Posted by Chuck Peterson (Member # 70) on :
I remember a movie where the moon landing was all faked in a movie studio. What gave it away was someone noticed the reflection in an astronaut's face shield of the movie studio, cameras and lights.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
LOL...fantastic responses! Hey, I'm not saying we didn't get there, only that after the show I watched, it sure made me question it.
Just because someone hands you a roll of film and says, "here, develop this...it's a roll of film shot on the moon" does not make it real.
Same with anaylizing a "moon rock". Could have been picked out of some guy's back yard. "Here's a moon rock, see what elements it consists of".
Some of the [many]shows notations were:
1.) The camera's lens that the astronauts took pictures with had several + registration marks etched in them for measuring/detailing each shot. This "+" would always appear ON TOP of each photographic image. Well, several shots had portions of the image IN FRONT of parts of the "+" lens etchings while some showed the entire "+" etched registration mark....like someone doctored the photos. Photo manipulation wasn't then what it is today....they didn't have Photoshop with the healing brush then. So, how could this be?
2.) Shadows cast from the lunar module were shown cast at a different direction than an astronaut standing outside it...suggesting multiple light sources.
3.) Photos supposedly taken on different days, in totally opposite directions quite some distance from each other were superimposed and found that the same rocks aligned perfectly from one photo to the other.
4.) A soviet equivelent to the NASA "space authorities" claimed that no-way could man have went to the moon. He claimed that there is a band of extreme radiation beyond the earth's outer atmosphere that would fry a human in a second unless the capsule was constructed of 3 foot thick lead walls. He claimed this is why they never attempted it.
5.) While the so-called footprint was easily embedded in the dust on the moon's surface by a 175 lb man, it was noted and shown in one of the lunar module photos that there was no mini-crater beneath the lunar module's landing jets. If the surface was soft and dusty enough for a man to make a footprint...then why wasn't there an impression made by the force of the landing jets AND a significant depression made by the landing pads?
The theory is that we sent the men up and had them orbit the earth for several days....while the "moon shots" were being photographed and filmed in area 51 in Nevada which has a strikingly similar appearance to the surface shots of the moon. This all done in an attempt to calm US citizens fears of Russian technological dominance with their earlier successful Sputnik orbiter of the earth...AND to make the Russians think we were one up on them in the technology arena.
Why has no other country been there?
These are just a few of many points the show made. Not saying whether they are true or not...but they do make you wonder....
OJ was innocent right? The courts proved he was so it must be so right?
History has been shown to be falsified in the past...Columbus discovering America? In question. The Wright Brothers first flight at Kittyhawk? In question. Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech? Shown now to be plagerized from another preacher's sermon.
It seems like with all the technoligical advances since the old moon landings that we would have come farther than we have with spaceship construction, yet we have experienced many [some fatal] problems with the shuttles as we all know.
Makes for a good conspiracy theory anyway.
OP - not smokin' anything here. I get "high on life" big guy.
Keep em comin.
Posted by J.T. Gazaway (Member # 2001) on :
Hey Chuck, I bet you are thinking of Capricorn One. An old James Streisand...oh...sorry...James Brolin movie about landing on Mars which turned out to be fake. Uh-oh...brain just kicked in. I think O.J. Simpson was in that too. Great flick anyway but I think I just opened another can of conspiracy worms.
Posted by Mike Pulskamp (Member # 3475) on :
I just need to say that it makes me LOL to see folks badmouthing the money spent on "space" over the INTERNET using PERSONAL COMPUTERS!
I for one wish that WE would spend so much money on NASA that we couldn't start wars down here.
P.S. the world is round... Like a plate.
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
Regarding CrazyJack’s comment:
A year or so before the movie came out about Apollo 13, I was talking to a friend about that incident, how gripping it was as NASA struggled to find ways to keep the astronauts alive through each day while they looped them around the moon and back to Earth.
My friend had no recollection of the event, although he was in college at the time. He asked when it happened and I told him April, 1970. He said: “April, 1970... Oh, I was orbiting the moon then, too.”
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
I have heard that the roomfuls of computers in NASA's control room and on board the module added up to a mere fraction of ONE of today's home pc's. Now THAT'S scary! Especially if Microsoft had anything to do with it...hehehehe.
Even if we did spend all our money on space so we couldn't buy bombs....we'd still be fighting with sticks...and it still wouldn't stop the crazy middle Eastern bunch from finding some rusty knife to cut one of our heads off.
Bombs and technologically superior weapons is the best money spent in my opinion. That is one area where they could RAISE my taxes without me going into convulsions.
We recently shot down a test missle with a long range laser weapon...ya gotta love that, especially since the breakup of the Soviet Bloc and all their unaccounted for nuclear weapons.
Whether we went to the moon or not...ya gotta give credit for the bravery required to strap yourself into a missle and let yourself be shot into space. I can barely climb a ladder onto my roof without my knees shaking. Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
The story has been told of one of the Apollo astronauts being asked what went through his mind as he sat on the launch pad, was he musing on the historic vistas he was opening up, the “giant leap for mankind” about to unveil?
His reply was he kept thinking of the fact that he was sitting on two million pounds of high explosive in a vehicle made of five million parts, every one of which was bought from the lowest bidder.
Posted by Rovelle W. Gratz (Member # 4404) on :
I used to be in the Aerial Photography Business in VA. One of our people was one of the designers of the hand held Haselblad Camera they used on the moon.
At the same time I worked at the Pentagon Photo Lab for the Defense Intellegence Agency. Surprising what they could do even back in the 70s. I have a friend to this day don't believe we have ever been in space.
With some people it takes a 2X4.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
...and now they get their photos developed at Walmart! 2 for the price of one. More money for $800 toilet seats. Hehehehe.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~then I saw His face~~~~~~~~~~ now I'm a believer~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I think UFO's landin' on Earth is a hoax . . .LOL, but I wonder if they are all somewhere out there askin' each other if they still believe they landed on the Earth . . .
. . . .ANYWAY . . . can't wait to see some of the others . . .the Man in Mars ...........in Jupiter . . . . . ooooo~~~ cool Saturn . . . . . .
PS! JUST THINK!! Someday, this will not be an OT . . .
~there will be even more serious discussions about adhesion problems . . .lol,
~you will have to float the paint literally and slap the panel against it . . . .
~wonder what kind of special effects moon dust gives??
~We may use the sun on a different level as the mother of all drying booths . . . .
~I should think lead would no longer be an issue
~neither would wearin' that respirator . . lol
~ . . .nor gas prices
~nor bouncin' off the walls
[ May 21, 2004, 05:32 PM: Message edited by: Sheila Ferrell ]
Posted by Jeremy Vecoli (Member # 2278) on :
It's not a subject I give much thought to, especially when I'm trying to figure out where my next meal is coming from. However I was once asked, " Do you say 'the glass is half full' or 'the glass is half empty'?" I replied, "I'm just glad the glass exists."
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Sheila,
quote: I think UFO's landin' on Earth is a hoax
Here's one way of looking at it.
If you consider the universe to be endless, it would inherently mean that there are endless amounts of planets capable of supporting life as we know it. If 1 in 1 million of them has intellegent life, there would still be an endless number of them. Of them, if 1 in 1 billion was more advanced in space travel than we are, there would still be millions of them that could travel to the Earth.
All theses big numbers taken into consideraton, and even if you halve them just to be pessimistic, you still are faced with the mathematical truth that there are hundreds of chances that we have been visited by otherworldy life.
What I want to know is... Instead of landing in front of the United Nations building and presenting themselves to us in peace, why do they keep getting spotted buzzing over trailer parks, make crop circles and kidnap guys name Zeke?
Rapid
[ May 21, 2004, 07:53 PM: Message edited by: Ray Rheaume ]
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
Exactly Ray.
I'm afraid they think we're all idiots since they only kidnap the woman in a mumu and rollers and cold cream at the 7-11 at 3 am or take the guy outta his primer red pickup on his way back to the trailer park after trying to go ice fishing just like them yanks do. in july. in georgia.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Jeremy, thanks for the links...I'm working my way through them but let's start with a couple.
The Camera Crosshairs issue of the first link:
Even one sample of the debunker shows that even a crosshair that is over a very bright section of his panel STILL leaves a faint, lightened but clearly visible portion of crosshair. This would be true in any case except maybe if you took a picture directly at the blazing sun.
The apollo photo in question is clearly NOT bright enough to totally obliterate the crosshair....in my opinion you would see at least a faint indication across the bright portion of the object.
The Flag waving on the moon where there is no wind explanation: They claim they put a brace purposely on the flag to make it stick out for the shot as an appearance of it waving. One could also say that they purposely made it look to be waving to be visually appealing to fool the masses who would not have known this fact....and they merely changed there explanation to fit a new scenario.
More to come later...going to see Shrek 2. Now there's something I can believe in: Talking donkeys. Hehehehe.
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
You mean "Men in Black" wasn't a documentary???
Posted by Jeremy Vecoli (Member # 2278) on :
"...The apollo photo in question is clearly NOT bright enough to totally obliterate the crosshair....in my opinion you would see at least a faint indication across the bright portion of the object."
Of course it is bright enough!
Ask any photographer. They will certainly have a different opinion... Here is a perfect example that shows overexposure bleed. No "faint indication" The crosshairs are built into the camera, nobody needs to "add" them in. Even if it was faked, they would have used the same camera. I guess like abortion, evolution, politics, etc, nobody comes out of this with their mind changed, however in this case, there is a strong credibility imbalance between the two positions in favor of a successful landing.
Posted by E. Balch (Member # 3545) on :
As far as I know there isn't anyone claiming to have faked the landing.
Where are the first hand accounts of the faking process? People would have written books and cashed in.
The moon landings could not have been faked, it is impossible to keep that kind of secret for 35 years. When a large number of people are involved in a project, the story always gets told after 20 years or so.
ernie
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Yeah, it's kind of like the history books telling us forever that Christopher Columbus discovered America, and the Wright Brothers were the first to fly a "sustained" flight....now, these are being scrutinized for their legitimacy.
Or even Martin Luther King's "I have a dream" speech which he claimed as his own....now we find out he plagerized that from another preacher....and was almost thrown out of school for plagerizing several other people's work. Yet certain segments of the population will go on forever believing the original story.
Posted by Karen Wunch (Member # 3577) on :
Don't tell me Camelot didn't exist and we didn't land on the Moon.
Just don't tell me that. Don't tell me a LOT of things:
Don't tell me my dad was injured and died 25 years later from injuries sustained due to the Korean 'CONFLICT' (ie: NOT war...) HA! I lived every day through those 25 years with Him...
Don't tell me my Mom didn't get a "US Flag" from Grateful Nation upon His death ...due to a "Conflict"...
Don't tell me Hitler didn't cause the Hollocaust.
Don't tell me those things...
IF all the Conspiracy Theories are TRUE???
I just ... don't want to KNOW.
Frankly? I just DON'T want to KNOW the truth...
Let me hide in this lil' bubble of mine. I'm happy here...with Dad's USA Flag, and my lil' Moon Rock..
*hugs her Moon Rock*
~k~
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
UH!! NOW SEE WHAT YOU'VE DONE!!
You have cast doubt and questions in the minds of people even affecting the little Moon-Doll!!! I won't stand for it.
I want documentations of the garbage you heard and saw. I saw no authentic information on the original post . . .just:
"I heard "some" people did'nt believe it . . ."
and "I saw a show . . ."
Not to say that you did'nt hear this or see a show, of course you did, but to say that I'm amazed at the number of people who comment on and/or vehenmently defend hear-say and other crazy things that actually make it to public programming.
Which BTW reminds me Ray & Kissy: I too am amazed at the "Highly Intelligent" life" forms that "visit" this planet and refuse to head straight for those who are desprately trying to comunicate with them with millions of dollars of equipment and grants. . . . . . .
. . . .I am amazed at the number of intelligent life forms that commented on this post . . . .LOL
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Don't tell me Vinyls gonna replace paint
Posted by James Donahue (Member # 3624) on :
I'm currently reading a book by Lee Strobel, who used to be an investigative journalist and award winning legal editor of the Chicago Tribune.
The book is called "The Case For A Creator", and I recomend it. In it, he interviews a number of people, including Philosopher Jay Wesley Richards, PHD, and Astronomer Guillermo Gonzolez,PHD. Together the two authored "The privileged Planet".
On page 179 of Strobel's book, as he's interviewing them, they said: "...We can actually measure this. Astronauts left mirrors on the moon and astronomers have been bouncing lasers off them since the early 1970's..."
I was hoping there was something they left behind. Now what's left to do is ask a different astronomer if the mirrors business is true, as I'm leary of information from only one source.
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
Whether or not we've actually been to the moon is a moot point - if we *have* been there they haven't done anything with it since so what's the point of debating it?
I don't think aliens are visiting us in search for intelligent life, they're barking up the wrong tree if they are - THEY'RE the ones that know how to put interplanetary spacecraft into the hands of individuals. On Earth, all they'll find are guinea pigs for their experiments, at best, which makes sense that they take the bottomfeeders as Kissy points out.
And what's with this notion that aliens wouldn't be able to understand and communicate in our own languages? They can build and fly spacecraft that travel lightyears to our planet, but they can't decipher our language? Uh huh. Yeah.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
well all I have to say is Mr Magoo was faking it... he could really see! Posted by Laura Butler (Member # 1830) on :
If it was a hoax, then the government went all out financially to create the illusion. I was building circuit boards for Jabil Circuit for the space/moon program back in the 60's. If it was a hoax, Jabil Circuit certianly prospered from it (those that followtechno stocks will know what I am talking about).
ps. I amso impressed with the brains that we got here. I never knew so many people painting signs came from intellient life.
Posted by Frank Magoo (Member # 3950) on :
Yes Ro, Mr. Magoo can see, also true, clams have legs!!!!!
Laura, why does the fact this industry has intelligent ppl. aboard surprise you? Do you think a complete idiot would know how to space, layout, design, apply (either by hand or w/vinyl),run an office, make estimates, operate a computor, encompass mass amounts of knowledge neccessary to succesfully operate as a sign/design shop, intelligent enough to do your own books, purchaser, outside sales, inside sales, controller, dispatcher, janitor, paint expert, brush expert, vinyl expert, shop-foreman, shop-goat, expert at taxes, knowledge of licensing, knowledge of rules governing paint operations, and on and on and on....these are not the signs of less than intelligent ppl. Laura. I'm surprised you'd even say such a thing, I'd figure it would have been just the opposite. Don't undersell any of us because you don't understand, I don't know you, but, if this is an indication of your professional level,I don't want to, I've worked hard all my life in this industry and the only thing I can think of to say to you is; you need to find a day job, this isn't an industry you'll be happy in. It's about the love of the craft and some of you out there will never know that feeling. Plain and simple, just don't hammer the rest of us as if we're just trailer trash and Lordy, they're about half smart too!!!! I for one took offense to your broad painting of us as less then intellengent persons simply because we fall under the banner of sign-painters/ design artists. Either find another way to say what ever it is that you have to say, or quit saying anything at all, that's the only slack I'll give at this point, I'm offended by your post....I'm not incapable of doing anything I wish to, including being a rocket scientist. I chose to be an artist. My resume speaks for itself...
Posted by Donsigns (Member # 131) on :
My Grandmother never ever believed it, her spin on it was that it was pure Hollywood. I am a Believer. But tempered against anything from Historians and Governments is the following:
Body of Truth Heinrich Boll
Is written history lies ? No, not lies perhaps, but it is more like a narrative of inaccuracies in as much as one can never precisely reconstruct it, and it therefore contains untruths. At bottom truth was an 'assembled' thing. That it could not be found in one place, not in one book, one man's perspective, not in one man's testimony, or one government's history. These were only particles of truth. They had to be assembled, collated to get at the greater thing itself. It is such an obvious thing, that one seems not to be cognizant of it. We go through life holding only the particles in our hands, thinking all along that we possess the whole thing itself. Truth was so difficult to get at because the documents that we gather together in order to assemble the truth may not in themselves be truthful to begin with. We know that governments and statesmen lie to each other and that these lies sometimes are recorded (as truth, of course) in documents which we then assemble (unaware of their deceit) like so many particles, and with the best of intentions, into a body of 'truth' that really is not the truth at all.
Posted by Gail & Dave Beattie (Member # 572) on :
hey Brian, Devo keeps telling me that since he gave up drinking he doesn't care about the half full or half empty bit... it's just a glass!
on the other hand discussions like this always bring to mind a part of that old quote... 'more things in heaven and earth than are dreampt of in your philosophy'
my nana always said the more she learnt the less she knew of anything, so I think it might be an age thing
in the bigger picture 'It is what it is'...said with a shrug of my shoulders
(by the way that is my new favorite saying)
cheers gail
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
In response to James Donahue's question, the following were only a few of the many links generated by a google search for "mirrors on the moon". There is some fascinating science on these sites.
Disclaimer: None of these are Letterville merchants. Should you decide to buy a slightly used Lunar Rover, seismograph or mirror ranging device through one of these links, please inform the man in the moon of the benefits of becoming a Letterville merchant. We can then truly have an "out of this world" Letterhead site.
Is intellient the unintelligent spelling of intelligent?
It takes an awful lot more intelligence to learn the craft and business ends, solve problems, figure out new techniques and built your own business than it takes to write a check to buy yourself a job, er signshop and go to a free forum to post 'Help me' posts everytime you don't know how to do something.
Quite frankly, it amazes me that you consider all of us unintelligent signpainters, but we're still good enough to tell you how to do your job when you put your help me posts here.
Frank said it perfectly: it's about the love of the craft. Perhaps in your next life you'll understand what that means.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
: )
Did anybody see the obscure film Capricorn I with OJ Simpson? It covered this very subject. Go rent it from the video store. Acting is bad, but, the story is interesting.
[ July 12, 2004, 04:05 PM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
Posted by Ron Gibbs (Member # 3882) on :
They never went back because they found better cheese right here on earth. I watched every Mercury,Gemini and Appollo as a kid on the Zenith too.From Cape Canavrel to Houston ,Astronauts were my heros.It was so fasinating ,glued to the TV ,witnessing such events. I even got to skip school!Watching takeoffs to orbit the earth and landings as they splashed down in the ocean.My mother and I would get up in the middle of the night to watch if we had too.When the lunar landings took place it was the height of the Space Program. Not a chance ! it didn't take place.
Posted by David Harding (Member # 108) on :
My father was a geophysicist who did his masters thesis on Meteor Crater, Arizona. He worked with Gene and Carolyn Shoemaker on the Sierra Madera impact site in West Texas in the early ‘60s.
He helped develop the curriculum for training astronauts in geology since, with one exception, Harrison Schmidt, they were test pilots, not scientists. Gene Shoemaker worked on giving the hands on geological training to the astronauts.
As a young teen, I saw many NASA reports in the house, data from Ranger and Surveyor spacecraft. I had other friends who were working as subcontractors on various aspects of the project.
I think it would have been much harder to pull off a hoax of this magnitude than to actually land on the moon. Yeah, I’m a believer.
Posted by Michael Latham (Member # 4477) on :
WELL, VERY GOOD QUESTION. i KNOW ELVIS IS ALIVE AND PLAYING PIANO AT A LITTLE TAVERN NEAR MY SHOP, TUESDAY THRU SATURDAY. gREAT! AS FAR AS THE MOON SHOT, i HAVE MY DOUBTS, AFTER ALL WHEN WE LANDED ON THE MOON NOTHING WAS MENTIONED ABOUT THE CHEESE IT IS MADE OF. NOW WALLACE AND GROMIT MADE A TRIP TO THE MOON JUST FOR THE CHEESE FILLING. I SEEM TO REMEMBER THAT IT EITHER WASN'T REAL GOOD OR REALLY NOT CHEESE. OF COURSE WALLACE AND GROMIT FLEW SOME 5 TO 8 YEARS BACK, NOT IN THE SIXTIES. I THINK SOMEONE NEEDS TO RESEARCH THIS! MY 2 SCENTS.
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