I will be asking my friend noel who designed this layout to visit this place (go easy guys!), he works in a newspaper in advertising. I have tried to dissuade him from such a cramped layout but what does everybody else think? I know you can’t zoom in on the shot.
Posted by Dave Cox - That Sign Guy (Member # 3517) on :
Looks like a good start! I would definately give more room around the design. Figure out if the sign's purpose is to attract drivers or walkers...and size the lettering accordingly.
I would imagine that the placement of the sign is to dissuade graffiti and tampering... looks like the neighborhood may be a little rough around the edges (hence the bars). If placement is not yet set in stone you may consider a larger sign placed in the open area to the right of the door.
Right now the overall look and feel is Old Western to me. The sign shape, fonts, and sunset shading backdrop all have a saloon type feel.
probably more than you asked for but at least I was nice about it!
heheheh
Dave
Posted by Frank Magoo (Member # 3950) on :
I'd use the entire space above door/window; his design leaves no negative space and the overall look is spotty. Sign itself looks cramped....if you used entire area above you could stretch out the line christian fellowship and over impose the cove street at start of christian. I'd make it level too, oops, sorry, that wasn't nice was it? somehow, i'd deal with color change of background in my design too.
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Hi Miles. The sign DEFINATELY needs more negative space around the lettering. Also, the "western" feel, to me, doesn't work with a sign that is on a little Irish street. I'm not saying to go overboard with some Celtic alphabet. But something a little more "dignified" like Goudy maybe would be more appropriate for "Cove Street" & "FELLOWSHIP". I would also rearrange the copy so that "Cove Street" would be on top, in a seperate panel,all caps, making "Christian" the largest central word in caps & lower case, in a looser, friendlier alphabet, perhaps even one of Mike Steven's awesome Scripts, (maybe even modifying the "T" into a cross?) then doing "FELLOWSHIP" in all caps in a smaller height. I would suggest a plain dark background , maybe navy blue, with the "Christian" in gold leaf and also the panel background for "Cove Street", with those letters being navy, and "FELLOWSHIP" in ivory. Just my 2 cents, hope it's not too wordy & hard to understand what I meant. Love...Jill
Posted by Mark Matyjakowski (Member # 294) on :
Looks like something a newspaper guy would do filling every last bit of the space. The stuffed look doesn't work here at all. The "Cove St." doesn't look right in between the main copy, is it the Cove St. Fellowship or just on Cove St., I don't understand why it's "there" but either way it looks like a sandwich ... or it kind of takes the shape of a mouth with the main copy being teeth biting the script.
at a minimum I would reduce the copy as a whole to like 75%(ish) ... straighten out fellowship and move it up/under christian an put cove st below
Personally I might go with a more horozontal layout ... the way the colors split kinda where the brick does adds a bit of wierdness IMO
Posted by Michael Latham (Member # 4477) on :
Boy, what an interesting place for a sign. The building designer didn't leave much space for anything. I think I would go across the top of the window and door with a long/short sign. I probably would not cross the transition line on the building. Possibly stand the bottom of the sign off building 2-4" and angle top out 6-8" to give dimention to the building and sign. If the lights are not already attatched to the building I would be setting them further apart and four lights. Just my thoughts.
[ May 14, 2004, 09:09 AM: Message edited by: Michael Latham ]
Posted by Bob Stephens (Member # 858) on :
This sign does'nt belong on this building. It looks out of place. I would design something that would feel like it was meant to be there.
Theres no consideration of the architectural elements in this sign.
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
My first comments would be architectural also. The horizontal band or a projecting sign over the entry I think would fit the building better. The sign itself should be designed to compliment the architecture and scale and probably have a more traditional appearance.
PS. Breaking up the read by sticking the "Cove Street" small in the center also contributes to the confusion. Put it on the top so it reads "Cove Street Christian Fellowship"
[ May 14, 2004, 11:25 AM: Message edited by: Rick Sacks ]
Posted by Philip Steffen (Member # 2235) on :
1) There is a street and a sidewalk immediately in front of this building. I think a perpendicular sign(2-sided) would be better than a flat mount(1-side). You wont read it until your right on top of it.
2) Why that shape?? Lay one out that is more complimentary to the surroundings, locale, builiding etc. It doesn't cost more to have the shape or colors fit in.
3) Bright, blended colors say "new church" or "young church" to me. Is that accurate?
4) Whats up with the BARS on the window? Is that to keep converts in, or others out Posted by Tasmus (Member # 445) on :
I think you need to fill that space.....like this. The colors are goofy, and I am not even sure about the fonts but hey whaddaya expect in 10 minutes?
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Just an idea...
Rapid
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
OK, here are three REALLY crappy Silly Jilly originals. Sorry if they're small, this is from GA, have yet to figger out Corel. (I made the cross out of a "T" from this alphabet) (both the upper shapes are from VectorArt...thanks Gary Godby!) (sometimes the sun is incorporated as a Christian symbol) I'm super-busy today but I felt compelled to help. Maybe cuz you got me Coffee at Cork. Love...Jill
Posted by Steve Eason (Member # 3567) on :
Barry & Ray, nice layouts guys! I gotta ask what software are you using? Is this all done in photoshop?
Are you using a template for the basic outline? Inquiring minds want to know. Just trying to learn something here. Thanks, Steve
Posted by Ted Nesbitt (Member # 3292) on :
Great ideas all guys----Ray, I like the way you stretched the layout landscape to fill what is an unfortunate, but still useful space. The inital idea just looks orphaned on the wall to me, cramped lettering aside.
I agree with an earlier comment as well----I see a double sided sign on a gooseneck or something hanging over the doorway----that is, if code will allow hanging...
So far, Ray's has my vote....
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Steve,
I use Corel Photopaint and Coreldraw 8.
Typically, I just make the design in Draw and copy it to the clipboard. I then open Photopaint and hit "new from clipboard" which makes a photoeditable version. Once that's tweaked, just grab the backround with the masking wand, invert the selection and again copy it to the clip board. Last step is to paste it into the photo and with a little rotating and skewing, "hang the sign"...
Then, just hit "file/save as" and rename the original picture. You now have the original, the altered file and the photoeditable saved (I usually use a jpeg format), and can save the Draw file as well.
My semi-automatic backup system, manually done.......kinda. Rapid
Posted by Tasmus (Member # 445) on :
Signlab and photoshop here. Signs are designed in S-LAB, then exported to PS
Posted by Bob Stephens (Member # 858) on :
Another stab at it. Posted by Steve Eason (Member # 3567) on :
Thanks for the tips! I'm currently re-evaluating my extremely old (inherited) software. Great advice. Regards, - Steve
Posted by Tasmus (Member # 445) on :
oh sure bob! Just ONE UP all of us!!!
LOL
Posted by Patrick Whatley (Member # 2008) on :
quote:Originally posted by Philip Steffen:
4) Whats up with the BARS on the window?
and how do you tie that architectural element into a design?
(great work on the redesigns too!)
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Outstanding, Bob. Excellent colors and layout against the bricks.
Only one question, though... Who's doing the electrical and masonry work for taking out the lights (at least I think they were lights... ) and the other object aready mounted on the wall?
I know, I'm a PITA... Rapid
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
My sister June submits this version. She can't upload pix because she is not yet a Resident. Remember, she lives in a trailer park over the hill. She thinks this is so Purty. Love...Jill
Posted by Tasmus (Member # 445) on :
Okay Jilli Juni wins! I am takin' my 'puter and goin home.
MAN Gotta love that brush script!
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Bob is THEE man. Perfect layout for that structure....give him a royalty and use as is.
Posted by Miles Cullinane (Member # 980) on :
that is some response guys and girls and june (??) thank you and maybe something good will come out of this. thanks for all who did designs. the funny thing is my original signs that i did a long time ago weren't that different from some of the designs and i was just starting out.
this is around the corner and shows the shape that i did have originally on both walls. 15 years ago. Posted by Brian O'Prey (Member # 4063) on :
Hi Miles.... I would go with Bob's design, however I would eliminate the bottom half of the elipse and have the main wording going straight across rather than an inverted arc. Colours and sign shape perfect. I know how conservative the churches are in Ireland. Bob's design gives clarity, conservatism and also brightness.......this all helps on that wet, grey, damp Irish weather. Go with Bob.
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Here's mine playing off Bob's design.
Havin' fun,
Posted by Kevin W. Betz (Member # 4133) on :
I wonder if he did this for free. It looks like it. No offense, but if it were me, I would start with Smalt, Gold Leaf, a hint of Mother of Pearl, maybe a H.D.U. sign with prismatic letters or maybe sandblasted redwood, then I would start on the design. I think that takes me up to $4,000 mabey $7,000. It's hard to tell the size, but my price is based on if I had free reign to do and use what i know. You can still do a job for far less, as this one seems to be an M.D.O. sign, but if the design looks like a million buck's, you can put it with any material. Sometimes you have to think of what materials can be used, based on the $ of the job, than go from there. I think he needs to realize that there a certain principles involved in Design, which I see is the most talked about on this sign. The design is what makes a sign, not the materials.
By the way guys, I was just wondering what ballpark $, size and materials you would use.
Now this is sharing, and watching his sign go from that to what it has evolved into, BRAVO.....
krazy kevin
Posted by Ian Stewart-Koster (Member # 3500) on :
Some nice variations,especially Chequers' colours.
Jill- you forgot the compulsory black shadow needed behind those great red script caps!
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Hmmmm.... I'm liking "Chequers'" design. June is insulted that nobody chose hers. She is sorry she didn't do the drop-shadow (in orange) and says a big "Thankee" to Ian for the suggestion. Love...Jill
Posted by Don Coplen (Member # 127) on :
Kevin, wonderin if you've ever done a church sign in a less than affluent neighborhood?
What part of that photograph of their building tells you that gold leaf, mother of pearl and smalts are in its future? Let me guess....is it SATAN?
(church lady from SNL)
Posted by Brian O'Prey (Member # 4063) on :
I would still go with Bob's........and by the way, suggest to them that they repaint the building.
Posted by Kevin W. Betz (Member # 4133) on :
I can't say if I have done one in this kind of neighborhood. All I see is just the building. It look's like a Mafia joint using the church sign as a front. As for the materials, something as nice as these would do nothing but draw attention not only to the church, but also to your-self. C'mon, other than the H.D.U. or Redwood, our material's aren't that expensive. I think you could write off a job like this for taxes since it is a church.
I have been to some neighborhoods like those described above. When they ask my opinion, I try to sell them a job like that. They will usually say something about it being "stold for the gold" , especially after I tell them it's 23k gold. Also, i am able to work my way down the latter in price to a point that I believe we both win. Hey, an M.D.O. sign with a good layout, that is only about $100.00, minus the cost of the design. Which leads me back to this: You can always come down in price, but it is hard to go up. But a Design is worth more than what the material is.
Posted by Bill Diaz (Member # 2549) on :
And the award goes to -- Checkers. 2nd place -- Bob
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
SOMEBODY stop me! Love...Jill
Posted by Lotti Prokott (Member # 2684) on :
Krazy Kevin, in what kind of a world do you live? A $4000 or maybe $7000 sign for a place like that? Let me guess, if they had that kind of money, they would not very likely spending it on a sign. This is the kind of job where you donate your time, if you believe that they are doing a valuable thing, or if not, at least offer soemthing nice for a good price.
Oh, yeah,I vote for Bob's, but about half the size.
[ May 16, 2004, 02:29 AM: Message edited by: Lotti Prokott ]
Posted by Dan Streicher (Member # 4515) on :
From KRAZY KEVIN "I wonder if he did this for free. It looks like it. No offense" Hey Kevin, hate to break it to you....that is offensive..... this is a place where we all try to help each other, and if we criticize other peoples work in a manner such as you have done, how do you expect people to feel open to share the work that they have done so that we can help them when they are asking for design help? Additionally how willing to you think people are going to be to help you if you continue to alienate people in the ways that you have? How do you think people are going to react to your work when you post pictures of the work that you have done or are in need of help or ideas? Really no offense, just something to think about.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Hey kevin... ya wanna see some of miles work? I'm sure he has better pics of the finished product, but i still remember this job whenever I see posts by miles. check it out:
[ May 16, 2004, 01:28 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
Posted by Kevin W. Betz (Member # 4133) on :
Just got in from installing 3 H.D.U. routed signs for a church that a friend of mine belongs to. The size of the signs are 10"x20". When he asked me to do these there was no price involved since I had been doing his company work for years and he knew what kind of work I do. It has been a conscience effort for me to continue to educate him about the possibilities of different idea's, materials, style, etc.
Upon our arrival I noticed he had someone install 3 posts. Whoever painted them did not know how to paint because you could see the wood had absorbed most of the paint leaving them to appear as a mucky greenish white. Maybe he did not prime the post? So, with roller in hand I brought the posts to a bright white, and was ready to install the signs. He had suggested we line the sign up with the top of the post. I suggested a better idea: we have some post caps that were already painted with the ball leafed. Why not drop the sign down a little and I would give him the caps to put on when he got back to the church. He said OK. On the ride back to the shop he asked how much did he owe me? I said the signs were $200 a piece. He said " I was thinking $50 a piece". I had explained the process, materials, etc. to him along with the image it would provide. After I gave him the caps, his smile was more than enough for me. I said here, you can have these on me. It made me feel good that I could help to make his signs look better. He did want to pay me for the caps, but sometimes for me, a job well done means more than a couple extra dollars.
So, first and foremost, there was no intentions on my part to sound like a person who attack's, or who wants to be offensive. I love signs so much that it causes me to lose sight of other peoples feelings. All of my intentions were based on looking at different angles. I too could have suggested more air space, better color, different idea's, or even show a design for him, etc. But due to my limited abilities in this new enviroment,(internet), I could not do that. I just flat out do not know much about how this web works. By the way, how in the world did you guy's get those sketches on there, and so fast?
I am trying to be friend's with everyone and also trying to provide everything I can for this meet coming up. I am flat out frustrated.
Again, I did not want to offend anyone, this is my family: Signs. It is all that I know. I guess it just came out the wrong way. I think it is in my best intrest to stay focused on the task at hand: To provide a nice atmosphere where we can share and learn from one another.
Miles, your work is nice, very nice. The glass pieces you did is the environment that I grew up in. My father, "Wild Bill" has 2 tapes on the art of Glass Gilding. Growing up seeing him work caused me to want to be as good. Well sorry to say, but I have not sold one job like these. Why, I don't know, probably because.......I just don't know. So I wound up doing a piece with some friends and brought it down to the Walldog meet in Kentucky. It was for the Hall of the Blues. It sure was fun and wish I could do or sell more. So all I can do is excuse my-self before my name gets damaged anymore than it has already. I hope you forgive me for coming across the wrong way...
Kevin
P.S. Miles, why not bring him to the Int. Meet in Detroit. This would give him the chance to see more about the Sign Business.
Posted by Miles Cullinane (Member # 980) on :
kevin you might not have noticed my address. LOL thanks for the feedback everyone but before it gets personal lets all take a deep breath and relax. it's only a sign. Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Miles... you're a good dude, & I shouldn't be using your good work to stir the pot, when you wouldn't.. but that is some nice stuff. Did you ever post any other final pics of the piece installed?
Kevin, the ading of images is fairly easy, but in most cases the first step is to upload an image to anywhere on the internet. ( anywhere meaning anywhere you are allowed to... you would have your own space if you have a website, I have my own with my site, some of us here get to use some space that Steve & Barb have (residents only I think )
Then if you get an image onto the web...Go there, & when you have the image on the screen, then highlight & copy the address from the address bar. Below where you type a reply you will see a button marked "Image" click that & you get a box to paste in the images address. click Ok to that box, then finish typing your reply then click the "add reply" button as usual. Done
you can also add images that are already located somewhere on the net. I searched google images for some cool church signs... I couldn't find a nice carved one with smalts, so I'll just post this old familiar image for comic relief:
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Wink]](wink.gif)
![[Dunno]](graemlins/dunno.gif)
) and the other object aready mounted on the wall?
![[Applause]](graemlins/clap.gif)
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
