I’ve been lurking for a month or so, and this is my first post. Finding this site was a revelation. For the longest time, I’ve been looking for a way to scratch a living out of my artistic talents, but signmaking never occurred to me until recently – don’t know why. Every day since, I’ve been searching the archives and the web, learning what I can about the different specialties, techniques. I’ve been amazed by what you guys do.
Starting November, my employer is cutting my hours in half, so I figure I might as well turn it into an opportunity to give the sign gig a go. What I really want to do is create hand-painted and hand-lettered pieces. I figure I can start with window painting & chalkboards and then move on to truck lettering, striping and gilding. While I know that these skills don’t come overnight, I’m a pretty quick learner and I have 6 months to practice. Just yesterday, I sold my old camera on ebay so that I can buy a sign kit.
There are a few questions that I have, though. I’d really appreciate your help in answering them.
1) Are there any letterhead meets in or around Tulsa?
2) Is there anyone around Tulsa who could give me guidance as I learn traditional lettering?
3) Is there a market for hand-lettering of vehicles? Can you make a reasonable hourly wage doing it?
4) How do you find trucks to letter? Trucking companies? Or is it better to go after individual owner/operators?
5) How do you price chalkboards? By the square foot? What’s an average price?
6) When painting windows, are you expected to go home and do the design, get approval and then paint, or do you just do it on the spot?
7) How do pinstripers get work? I’ve heard some talk about doing car shows. Is this profitable?
Thanks in advance! Starr
Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
Welcome Starr, It's nice to find someone who isn't wanting to start with vinyl and a plotter. There are some great books available to get you started. Everyone is about to chime in and tell you to get Mike Steven's Mastering Layout, so I might as well beat them to the punch. I'd probably suggest you pick one or two types of work to focus on for the time being. If you have good pictorial skills I'd think chalkboards would be a good place to start. You can get set up for them pretty cheaply and any mistakes won't be nearly as disastrous as paint on a vehicle. You can find blackboard paint at almost any lumber or paint store and paint the smooth side of hardboard, masonite or barker board (thats what we call them here in Canada anyway)- there is often cheap seconds available. Chackboards will give you an opportunity to get familiar with lettering styles and fonts and yet are fairly forgiving to the beginner. Now I'll bow out and let some others chime in. Good luck Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Hi Starr. I love your name. Everything Kelly sez is right. Do get yourself a Mike Stevens book. Check out the "future meets" page to try to find a local meet. It will change your life. My advice would be to find something you really love to do (vague I know) learn to do it well, and try to market yourself. If you want to try painting, see if you can get a sample 1-Shot starter kit from Frank Manning Jr. Then letter up your vehicle and drive around town! Good Luck. Love...Jill
Posted by Dana Bowers (Member # 780) on :
Hi and Welcome!!
Just to let you know, as much enthusiasm as you have, it will probably take you a tad longer than 6 months to learn to letter!! LOL!! I took a 2 year course... the first year was nothing but learning to letter! It's ALOT harder than it looks, trust me.
Sometimes if you have a fine art background, lettering comes a little harder. Learning to handle a brush for lettering is different than when you paint artwork. While in lettering school, most of the ones that had heavy art background took longer to learn the lettering techniques than those without as much.
You'll want to subscribe to Signcraft magazine, as well. There's not only alot of information in there, but the photographs of signs will help you learn design by sight and example.
Make sure you go to some meets and watch. Usually there will be people there that will put a brush in your hand and get you started.
Get yourself some paint like Jill said (Frank is a wonderful guy!), some brushes and set up some sort of a lettering bench/easel. Scribe some lines and start with BASIC strokes - horizontal, vertical, diagonal and go from there.
Don't try to do everything at once. Get started on the basics and go from there. You can easily overwhelm yourself!
Many people around here that letter and stripe have been doing it for MANY years... and are still learning and perfecting.
Good Luck!!
Posted by Rovelle W. Gratz (Member # 4404) on :
Welcome to our world.
Practice, Practice, Practice!
An old Sign Painter always said when anyone asked, "How long did it take you to learn to do that"?
Oh, about 6 or 8 hours.
Every day for 10 years.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
HI ...from an' ol' timer with no answers, LOL, except ditto's to what everyone said
I just wanted to say welcome to Letterville. I have only lived here for a lil' over a year, but I'm thinking of staying Posted by Joe Cieslowski (Member # 2429) on :
Starr,
A Speedball lettering guide will be a big help as well...I don't know if they still sell em, mine are really old! Try your art supply store or search the web. Practice on glass or metal.....put down your lines then clean em off....repeat! lol
Some of our merchants sell brushes....check em out for quality brushes!
Have Fun and Good Luck!
Joe, Makin Chips and Havin Fun!
Posted by Michael Berry (Member # 2604) on :
Starr-
Welcome! You found the best place in the world to learn just about anything that you would ever want to learn (about the sign trade that is!)
Mike Meyer & I had this conversation when I expressed a desire to learn hand lettering, this is what he told me, stay awake till about 2AM every night practicing on anything that doesn't move! Ask away, everybody here is family and ,most love to help us newbies.
Mike
Posted by Judy Pate (Member # 237) on :
Welcome aboard Starr! Mike Steven's Mastering Layout book is available thru this website. Just click this link: http://www.letterhead.com/bookshop/index.html You'll find Trucks by Bob Benounek,Atkinson Sign Painting books are available here also. Check out the Future Live Meets link for meets in your area. One was recently held in Oklahoma City at Fred Self's shop. This is a yearly event so be ready to attend next year! All the best to you! Judy
[ April 18, 2004, 12:02 AM: Message edited by: Judy Pate ]
Posted by R T Thomas (Member # 355) on :
Hi Starr,
Welcome to Letterville!! There are some down right AWESOME pinstripers and sign painters in Tulsa. Why Tulsa is so famous for stuff like that it has it own style! I don't have any specifics for you right at hand, but you can call Fred Self at Fred Self Signs (where else?) in OKC and he can hook you up with some of the best in the biz right there at home. Two that come to mind are Ron Meyers and Lil' Toot.
Hope this helps, R.T.
Posted by Bob Stephens (Member # 858) on :
Techniques and mechanics can be learned by practice and books. But make design and composition your number one priority...make it an all consuming passion. And learn to NEVER give your talent and hard earned skills away.
But number one, do it for the love of it.
Posted by dave parr (Member # 3868) on :
Welcome Starr, I'm already interested in following how you do and what you find that fits you in this line of work. Keep us posted on your progress. I can't add to the great advise you have already gotten. This can be a very fun business, it's quite diverse, offering a limitless horizon.
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
Hi Starr...first let me welcome you to the Bull Board.
Yos sound really sincere about wanting to join this group of crazies...R.T. already beat me to the punch here with the reference to Ron Meyers and "Lil Toot" aka Greg Tooter. If you'll e-mail me I'll pass along "toots" phone number so you can get in touch.
Both these guys are rabid Pinheads...and always eager to help any Letterhead /Pinhead get started.
The will know about any and all meets in your area (they usually have one theselves every year or so).
Don't miss fred's next meet in OKC next spring ...it will be a life changing experience for you.
A couple more suggestions here...you've already heard about Mike Stevens Book...here's two others that are a must have...John Hannukanes book on Pinstriping and a pricing guide from Signwriters Publishing (available at N.Glatz Sign Supply in Tulsa).
By the way don't give up a day job this will not happen for you overnite...it takes time to build a clientelle, even longer to be proficient in the mechanics of the trade...still if this is your desire it can happen for you...patience is definitly a virtue in this trade.
If there is anything we can do we're not far from you...feel free to contact us at <signs@itlnet.net>
Posted by Starr Horne (Member # 4633) on :
Thanks guys for your encouragement! I'll definately get the mike stevens book and look up Fred Self.
Oh, and I didn't mean to suggest that I would master lettering in a mere 6 months! I've seen what you guys can do and I'd never belittle it like that.
I'll be back with lots more questions and updates.
have a good day, starr
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
I just re-read your post...it seems to me you're a good thinker.
I'm going to recommend a good career strategy for you...look it over consider it and make what ever moves you think are correct!
The quickest least expensive way for you to get into this biz (hand lettering)these days would be the following.
There are a lot of car lots in Tulsa and surrounding area (sand springs, Skiatook,Catoosa, Owasso, etc.)nearly all of them have people paint prices & amenities on the windshields...tthere will be others doing this work but you can compete by showing up on the days they don't show.
It usually only pays about &3.00 to $5.00 a windshield...however they will always have 20 to 30 cars to do at a time and you get paid when you get finished...at first it will take you longer than it should but after a while you'll be screaming thru them...set up a route that makes sense to you (closest to the house when you start and work your way back).
total material expenditures for this kind of set up (two or three colors and a couple of brushes)will be about 50 to 80 dollars and you'll have enought paint to do 2 or $3000.00 work.
While you're doing these cars you will get asked more and more whether you can stripe too or letter vehicles ...as you improve don't be afraid to "dive in". this is a great way to create a clientelle.
In addition to this keep an eye out for "window splash" work and set them up on your route (Barber shops...beauty shops...convienience stores etc.) when you graduate to this level you'll need some short ladders and an expandable plank ( a 2"x 12" about 6' or 8' will work too.
The practice of doing "lettering" on the windshields will be a natural as you progress up the food chain.
I have a great fast "casual style" I could teach you in an afternoon if you are willing to drive down to Norman. (check with anyone here I'm harmless)
There are several good posts in the archives for doing these types of work.
Oh and one more thing ...look up "Raincatt" in the chat pals,.. Addrienne is one of the best cartoon and mural artists on this BB and she loves helping struggling wannabes. She lives in Washington and hasn't been on here much lately but thats the kewl part of the internet you can contact her easily and get all the support you need.
While you are working in these two areas be practicing all you can on pinstriping...stripers make a lot of money doing what the love most.
One thing to keep in mind ..."People pay more money for things they want than they do on things they need.
Thats it for now..except buy a years subscription to "Sign Craft Magazine" there is always good samples of window work and hand lettering.
You can do this...all it takes is a little courage.
By the way there is a gal "Brenda" (don't know her last name)in OKC that makes her sole living doing nothing but windshields on car lots and from what I understand she makes a fine living.
Your move!
[ April 16, 2004, 01:37 PM: Message edited by: Monte Jumper ]
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
I have to laugh here ...I'm really being a "busy body" on this post .
Oh well ...something else to remember...stick 10 to 20% away from every job you do and you'll have more than enough to pay your taxes at the end of the year (you'll never miss it!)If you don't you'll regret it later.
here's two pieces of advise I got along the way that will really help anyone..."never spend more in a day than you earned thats day" (my dad)
The other is...You can letter 5 mail boxes a day for $20. or 20 Mail boxes for $5.00...either way you make a hundred dollars. (Al Britton...one of my mentors)
Thats all I can think of for now...go gettem girl!
Posted by Starr Horne (Member # 4633) on :
Hi monte! Thanks for all of your advice. I just shot you an email about visiting norman..
Looks like all I have to do now is practive my butt off!
Starr
Posted by Kathy Joiner (Member # 1814) on :
Welcome to Letterville. You have been given some sound advice. Also you need to subscribe to Signcraft magazine. You will love it.
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