Had a customer order two .080 aluminum 18" X 24" signs, one side had to be painted a specific color, he even gave me a color swatch and pantone numbers to match exactly. Made the signs, delivered them, he wasn't there, but his wife accepted them, said they were great and wrote a check, I thought everything was fine, until today he calls and says "Hey, I just assumed they would be reflective, I know I didn't mention it, but I "assumed" since you were the sign person...."
Am I in the wrong here, should I just replace them and chalk it up to experience?
Posted by Roy Frisby (Member # 736) on :
The "Operative Word here is "Assumed" He didn't specify that he wanted reflective. I would in no way, shape, form or fashion just replace them. If he wanted them reflective, he should have said so.
Posted by Vicki Powell (Member # 3796) on :
Thanks Roy,
That's what I was hoping to hear.
Vicki
Posted by Bruce Williams (Member # 691) on :
If he knew reflective is more espensive, he wouldn't assume he was getting it. If he assumed that, then he didn't know what he was talking about.
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
I don't think the customer is totaly at fault here, as a sign person we have to ask specific questions, or we assume that it's High Performance Opaque vinyl all the time. Even on a simple panel you have to ask...
Color(s)? Content? Substrate? code requirements? paint/vinyl/screen? what kind of vinyl? if no color match avail-screen color? if screened is it opaque or translucent? mounting (how, where need to supply hardware or predrill?) Deliver or Will Call....?
These are questions the sign maker must ask...
So many desicions for one little sign, and our job to know prior to bidding or designing, I think if it were me, I would split the cost, since he knew going in what he wanted, but you failed to ask....
Posted by Mark Fair Signs (Member # 289) on :
to a certain extent i would agree with rick, ask a lot of questions.
if the word "reflective" did not come up in your conversation with the customer then i would not worry about it. "reflective vinyl" in my opinion is an option.
give the customer some options in your presentation.
just my opinion for what that is worth.
i think Roy has the keyword... "ASSUMED"
.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
DUH!!!!!!!!!!!
I don't agree. Very few signs I do are reflective. I never do it without it being requested and paid for. No offence, Rick. But, I don't usually ask that question either. Here again, the client ASSUMED, admittedly so. WWYD? I would probably make it right, but I would not foot the whole bill.
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Vicki, A client who specifies PMS colors is always a red flag to me.... I would explain to him the cost difference between reflective vynull & regular (there IS a difference) and offer to change the signs with the cost of removing the old vynull included. I think he will back off and shut up. I never ask about reflective. The customer might ask about it, then I go from there. Good luck! Love...Jill
Posted by Jean Shimp (Member # 198) on :
I would tell them I'm sorry that they assumed incorrectly and give them a price on making new reflective signs. In no way would I feel responsible for their mistake. I would not charge for the layout of making the new signs but everything else is full price. Can you think of any other business you can go to and expect free service because you made a mistake when you placed an order. Sure, it's an unfortunate situation and I would probably cut the customer some slack for admitting their fault but business is business and why should your company be short-changed.
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
The statment:
quote: had to be painted a specific color, he even gave me a color swatch and pantone numbers to match exactly.
is what the customer ordered....if it was to be reflective, then a reflective chi[p would have been presented!!!!!!!!!!!
IF the signs MUST ge reflective, he can place another order. I would raise the reflective price 25%...and give him a 10% discount.
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
No offense taken Rick, I do a lot of different types sign work, every job different than the rest, I almost always go through the routine of asking the who, what, where, when and why's. Every job I do from simple banner to monument sign gets some form of interegation.
On second thought, I would probably split the bill, BUT re-bid the job for reflective and the client make up the difference of that. You should't eat that difference, especially if you don't carry reflective in your regular stock.
Posted by FranCisco Vargas (Member # 145) on :
One thing I wouldn't do is tell them we will remove the vinyl. Since the panels has been painted and probably still fresh, the paint job will most likely get ruined in the process. Since it was only two. Give him another quote, with a slight drop in price since you already have the letters saved to be cut. I'm sure he'll find a place for them to use.
Posted by Myra Grozinger (Member # 327) on :
You know what: Life is difficult and as a responsible person and signmaker we have enough to handle taking responsibility and eating it when we really f#$^up. But in this case you are blameless.
Imagine me doing a sign reflective, because as an "experienced Sign Maker" I think it ought to be, without it being requested, and charging for it, and then it's not what the person wanted?
Reflective is not on my list of queries when I run down what a customer may want - it does not mean I don't ask the question if it's obviously a sign that would benefit from it - but it is not routine, and it is not something I would consider my job to ascertain. I would not feel I failed in my duties of educating my customer by not bringing that option up. It does not mean I don't suggest it if I think it is beneficial, sometimes on vehicle lettering, but it is not my job to intuit that is what they wanted.
Geez, based on some of what went down today in my life, with cheapskates driving Lexus types wasting my time while I explained that my efforts on something like Sintra or aluminum cost the same as they do on corrugated plastic with spindly little legs.... to think that I would have to intuit that they also want reflective without them mentioning it makes my head hurt.
Posted by Judy Pate (Member # 237) on :
Vicki, Since reflective vinyl does NOT come in Pantone colors, nobody would even think the customer wanted reflective letters. I would not feel obligated to correct his mistake. I imagine the swatch was not reflective either. I would quote him a price for reflective..bet he will sing a different tune when he hears the difference in price. Judy
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
I usually "assume" most cuustomers have no clue....it hard to assume what the sign is needed for without basic information, if the sign was exterior, that is clue one, if it's in a parking or traffic area, clue two. You can't make any sign without the basic questions of Where is it going? Who will be viewing it? What will it say? When do you need it? Why is this sign being made? then the other questions come into play.... there is a process to making signs. Customers/clients really have no idea of the process, and it is our job to find out what they really need. Kinda like answering this question, she is leaving out a lot of information and we are assuming ourselves.....say if this sign goes in the inside of a well lit office biulding...then there is absolutley no reason for it to be reflective...so there is no need to ask the question...but then you need to ask (ADA, ETC...) but if this sign is in a parking lot, it should be asked, shouldn't it? Interesting topic and suprising answers......
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
quote:Originally posted by Judy Pate: Vicki, Since reflective vinyl does NOT come in Pantone colors, nobody would even think the customer wanted reflective letters. I would not feel obligated to correct his mistake. I imagine the swatch was not reflective either. I would quote him a price for reflective..bet he will sing a different tune when he hears the difference in price. Judy
You can silkscreen in translucent to quite a few PMS colors, but the cost is way up there! Then there is the reflective type (engineer grade, or retro reflective) The customer would definitley have to really want or need it...depends on where the sign is going.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Exactly Judy. I think he was tryin' to yank yer chain and hopin' mabey not to have to pay-up or somethin'. That's like some kind of friggin' game or somethin'.
In the jargon of "Miss Manners": In this case, I deem it crucial to the futherance of proper business ettiquette, and to the right to one's own sanity, that this customer should indeed be treated with some degree of disdain for his inappropriate behavior.
Translation: Forget "LIGHTEN UP YOU PEOPLE" on this one: BE HARD on him, lol
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I think for the price of 2 18x24's I don't always have time to "upsell" & if the client knows what he wants enough to bring color swatches...& I happen to be busy that day, I wouldn't ask if they want fries with that..I mean reflective.
..but now that things are where they are... reflective background is a whole nuther sign job, but would some reflective borders or overlaying some of the main copy with reflective be enough help to get his signs noticed? These are the type of solutions I would probably offer along with the total redo, & I might do them at a lower mark-up just to keep everyone happy.
Posted by James Donahue (Member # 3624) on :
My thinking is the same as what Judy and Si said.
And I'm wondering if the reflective was just an afterthought the customer(s) had after taking the signs.
Rick, thanks for the tip about screening over reflective. I was wondering if one could airbrush some translucent over it, sounds like I can.
Posted by Vicki Powell (Member # 3796) on :
Wow,
Thanks for all the opinions and thoughts on this topic, I was really stumped as to what course to take. This site was definitely the place to turn to. I have gained soooo much good information from this place that it is unbelievable. Thank you everyone for being so willing to share your experiences and advice with someone that really needs it!
Vic
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
You now what happens when you "assume"....
Nuff said! Rapid
Posted by jimmy chatham (Member # 525) on :
i would have told him since we are assuming that i assumed you were going to give me a $100 dollar tip.
Posted by Bill Diaz (Member # 2549) on :
Tell him you assumed he knew that there was no such thing as reflective PANTONE colors. Mercy--where do these people come from?
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
James Donahue, airbrushing a Transluscent over a reflective is a way different effect then airbrushing a Tranparent. In the 80's I would spray a transparent over reflective to change the color. Candy paints are transparent, complet see-through where as transluscents are semi opaque.
Posted by Roy Frisby (Member # 736) on :
Another option, which I have used on occasion, is to coat out the entire sign with One-shot clear and sprinkle with glass beads while wet. That is one of the original ways of reflectorizing a sign. ("reflectorizing" is a word isn't it?) I think you can still buy glass beads.
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