...several posts and comments I've read here have caused me to say...
LIGHTEN UP
(and I KNOW I been guilty of it too)
I think we are too hard on our customers.
SO WHAT if they bring us weird art? SO WHAT if they don't know "how much a sign is"? SO WHAT if they ask (what we perceive to be) "stupid" quetions?
My lil' shop sign says: "There are no stupid questions, just dumb mistakes"
I ask them a lot of questions too, and I'm sure they think I'm crazy. But in the end when the sign is up and there are no mistakes, I get to hear a lot of "Thank you for talkin' me out of that" or "into that" comments.
I know it's just occupational hazards & "..gotta laff to keep from cryin' thinkin' most the time.
ANYWAY, I'm just sayin' ...some seem to have a serious superiority thing goin' about customers who don't know anything about signs. I was thinkin' they are NOT 'SPOSED to know. That's what we're for.
Or wha's worse for ya ...the customer who can show EXACTLY what they want AND it's GOOD! Can our artistic/sign-pro mentality conceive of THAT?
Aw'rite you sweet darlin's. I'm dun. Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on :
...Some sign cusomers (who DO NOT know what they are talking about), just like to be bossy anyway. It's their stupid trip, and they are generally disrespectful "across the board".
...A letterhead ,slogan is "The sign business would be really great, if it wasn't for the clients !!!"
Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
i see dumb people....and it's twice as bad when they are cheap to boot.
my fuse has been short lately(ya think?) . i'm far too busy to deal with the cheap a$$holes who try to treat me like someone who's begging for their business. i've turned away 5 jobs this week because they have started out with...."i'm an ad agency and my client needs some small signs for her business...i am also checking with 2 other sign companies." oh please pick me pick me...not.
or 8:30pm call "i'm gettin my new pickup next tuesday and i need you to letter it right away cause i'm busy" oh okay dickwad, i'm just sitting here picking my nose waiting for your call.
i know i'm mean and wicked but i can't help it. right now i have some really cool fun(good paying) projects keeping me hopping...which leaves little time to wipe ignorant arrogant people's a$$es.
i think you southern folks are just kinder...we're cranky up heee-a in the north country! Posted by John Smith (Member # 1308) on :
if I were any lighter . . . . I would float up like a Southern Dixie Pancake fried in 10-W-30 synthetic motor oil !!!
[ April 03, 2004, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: John Smith ]
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
I do try to be nice. I think courtesy is crucial. I am pleased when customers actually value my opinion....I get about 1 a year. But I refuse to be anyone's doormat. Just because I offer a service doesn't mean I have to kiss their butts to get the job. I am by no means an elitist. I am just me. Love...Jill
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
I just told a client that i was too busy to do a job for them.
The kaper,,
They called, "We got to have this done ASAP". We can't beleive how hard it is to get a sign guy to do this work? (HMMMMM was this a flag?) I did the site survery, gave em a proposal, they said do it, I went over for the deposit. Suddenly they want a list of places of my work so they could "check up" on me. I gave them some adresses. Now they say you got the job but we want you to cut it by $200 bux. HAH!
The answer.. I'm sorry I just got some other work that will take a while. You will have to get someone else because I am booked.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
HAHHAHHAA! That's it. Vent people. VENT!
Well, I reckon we MIGHT be a lil' more host-pitable down here . . .but I was talkin' about nice, new, innocent customers.
Ya'll broke out with the idiots who make us sweet, demure, soft-talkin', belles go red-in-the-neck, (and we ain't good at bein' door mats neether).
Them are the ones who don't think I'm "funny" at all when I try to humorously illustrate the absurdity of their rude, miserly, assinine, requests. For some silly reason they think I'm bein' a smart A-....uh, elick.
Ya'll get back on topic!!! (LOL)
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
A reversal here. I think there are just as many business folks who haven't a clue in just about every business including sign makers. Whether its design, color complimentry or just about anything a customer can ask for. Granted, there are some who feel they can design because their design program allows them that service, but what of those who can't live without clipart and yet cannot draw. Same goes for cashiers who cannot count without a calculator. How many times have you been short changed when in a store? What irks me sometimes are all these custom signs in the antique look as if this business proposes to have something to do with antiques. Take pinstriping for instance, a new vehicle which looks like a friggin jet plane in colors from another era and scroll work from the 50's, these are things that make me wonder where the person that has done this is from. Doesn't anyone keep up with the times or does this just mean they only have one style to offer. How about vehicle graphics with colors which aren't shown in the vehicles image, whether exterior or interior, whats that all about? I always wondered it vinyl persons give their customers a tooth brush to remove the wax that surrounds the vinyl after the signage or graphics have been waxed down the road.
In general, I hardly ever do anything any customer proposes, they can chose but one color and cannot give me a complete design that their spouse deems a great design. I don't mind doing cartoons which customers supply and only in the size they have in mind. This means I need the artwork in front of me. I refuse to be looked at as a puppet and in my business and will only stand behind my work as long as its my work. I'm booked up these days because of my attitude as well as design and I don't give visuals on paper unless I get paid up front. I normally go to their home or business spend 15 or so minutes, show my portfolio, lay some 1/8" tape, stibillo a few designs then make an appointment for the execution, this have never failed me. I can usually tell about a person within the first 5 minutes.
Thats all I have to say Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Personally, I don't have any "pain in the butt" customers. If they know what they want I do it. If they don't know what they want I suggest things and then do it.
HOWEVER!!!! A customer who doesn't pay IS a pain in the butt...BIG TIME.
Fortunately, I seem to be able to sniff most of them out before I do anything and in the last 10 years I think my "bad debt/deadbeat" accounts are around $500-$600. I can accept that, even though it annoys me.
(P.S. one of those was a cross border job and is why I posted a while ago about having someone close to a customer do a job that I wasn't comfortable with handling.)
Posted by Myra Grozinger (Member # 327) on :
Here's what happened to me day before yesterday. It was on a day when I had some patience, which is not always the case.
Local large University called and wanted ONE sign, d/f to say MBA Guest Parking/yellow corrugated w black letters (school colors).
In the call I was told they wanted to come by to see the "design" and OK the layout (TWO women).
I asked for their email addresses and within a few minutes opened a sumptuous ornate Butler scroll design and in Goudy, the school's main font, typed in the copy.
I emailed the proof, saying I assumed they were not looking for the ordinary, or a design approval might not have been asked for.
It came back they wanted something simpler, liked the words just like I had them with a black border.
I sent back the three words, a black straight box border, and one with rounded corners, I told them this would cost $ 95 incl. the design time, and I would throw in the spindly little legs.
They chose the straight box - and need it in two weeks. It may just be me, but the whole thing still makes me laugh. ------------------ Now to the topic: Sometimes I have the patience and most times I don't. This could have been a real powder keg had I been on my Prima Donna behavior. I would have spent some time being irked, would end up feeling bad about my impatience, and lose the job. (such as it is)
I believe there is merit in what Sheila says. I need to remember it always, and the most critical thing about it is that I feel better about myself when I don't lose my temper. And that's the bottom line about keeping up the old self esteem, it comes from within and builds from how we feel about how we act.
Posted by Brian W (Member # 42) on :
Sheila's right.
We all need to sit back and realize how frustrated we'd be if no one was coming through the front door, regardless of their demeanor or knowledge of our trade.
Most of us are so busy all the time we get cocky and feel invincible. All it takes is a good slow down in work to bring us down.
I used to say:
"If it wasn't for the customers our shop would run pretty smooth."
After being through a few slow downs I don't say that anymore.
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
Whoa there...whos quote was this?
From W.R. Picketts post reply... A letterhead ,slogan is "The sign business would be really great, if it wasn't for the clients !!!"
I wasn't aware that we had "Letterhead" slogans.
While I agree I sometimes feel this way I certainly wouldn't consider it a "Letterhead credo" and I hope no one else does either.
[ April 04, 2004, 05:53 PM: Message edited by: Monte Jumper ]
Posted by Jeff Spradling (Member # 1615) on :
Monte: I think what he meant was...that was a person's(letterhead's) slogan at the bottom of their post. Not a Letterville of letterhead slogan...at least that's how I took it.
Jeff Posted by Karen Wunch (Member # 3577) on :
Funny....
I have no 'bad' customers. They ALL get what they pay for...and within the terms they request. I've a national account based on Net 60. They pay almost twice the going rate, and LOVE it...since they can email me a $1K order on Monday and have it Wednesday morning. They rely on me to "Cover Their A**"...and I do.
Oh sure, I've had some 'whoppers' come through the door. I remember, specifically, a fella we first met as Exhibitors at the ($costly$) Atlanta Boat Show early in January of this year. He told me, in no uncertain terms!!!, that his vessel *ahem!*, "....went so fast that no vinyl would last on it...". This, just after we lettered a private jet. HA!
I hadda swallow {a few choice comments} and just said, "Oh, WOW?!? It's THAT fast?!" At that point? You just know you can't WIN, because I didn't want to try and prove The Customer, wrong. He was. Who cared? He'd have never admitted it, and I didn't want to take the time to prove him wrong.
However, I read in a Sign Mag (I dunno which one, just now...) but it said, in effect, "...you can tell how well You're doing by references from past customers...". In the recent past, I'm getting a lot of new customers from personal references of past customers. It Wurx fer me!
I like the smaller, independent, contractor wannabe types. They want AN IDENTITY: vehicle mags, business cards and work shirts, maybe a jobsite sign to boot. Limited (if ANY!) pre-conceived thought to the look and feel of their logo--they're NOT proud to ask. I usually 'have my way with them' .... and they love it. Me, too.
Who sez, "size counts"? I'd rather do some economical signs and related accoutrements over and over, and over!, for additional work trucks and more employees -- in the future. They grow, I grow. Like I said in the beginning, "They get what they pay for."
Customer Loyalty has it's place...and WILL ALWAYS deserve my Best Effort in return. Old Neighborly Concept? Sure. There's so little of that now-a-days. I'm glad to provide their signs with a sincere smile and 10-minutes of small talk to-boot.
Posted by Deb Fowler (Member # 1039) on :
Guess I made it simple on myself from the beginning, not that there weren't lots of angles of learning curves along the way. "Don't show up without a deposit", make sure that you understand that your artists, spouses, middlemen, committees, and materials don't come within a mile from my shop, and I would love to do business with you!" Then I run to their bank and cash their check as quickly as I can!, smiling all the way home! Oh yeah, I always make sure they sign the work order before they leave! Over 23 years, it seems to be the right stock for my soup... no doormatting here either! If I want to give something free away, it will be to my friends and family ps. I love 99 % of my customers! The rest better look out for me! I speak slowly and carry a big stick!
Posted by david drane (Member # 507) on :
Gee Deb, it sounds like they don't wanna mess with you. LOL. I couldn't imagine you hurting a fly... Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
This just in last night....
Right before wrapping up a race car, one of the sponsors called the car owner and asked that I replace some orange vinyl with red on the side of the car for their name. One piece, about 16" x 6" with the lettering cut out to window the car color through it. The change was based on the sponsors personal preference and no other reason. Everyone who'd seen the first version liked it a lot and thought it was a rather silly request. At first I was a little upset with the sponsor. You know, that "I've been doing this for 15 years and now you know whats better" thing we all can do once in a while.
I told the owner it would be $100 to do the change. (That raised a couple of eyebrows.) The body shop guy who did the paint job and the owner started to pull the vinyl off. On one side, the clearcoat, paint and primer pulled off the car, leaving a rip right down to the bare metal. This was a very pretty and near perfect looking race car up til that moment. I just shook my head and said to the owner..."Guess why I said it would be $100?" (15 years of this stuff.....nuff said)
Couple of hours later it was all set, all parties were happy and the body shop guy has a much better understanding why self etching primer works better on race cars.
I deal with this kind of junk all spring and being laid back about it is not just and attitude, it's a necessity. Especially when you know it's just gonna go out in a few weeks and get beat up.
Rapid
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
I think Sheila is right here. Customers come in all sizes, colors, and personalities....but I'd have to say that they overwhelmingly defer to my experience for the final outcome of their project and welcome suggestions.
Often, the problem comes when the Sign Professional doesn't have the confidence or communication skills to show the customer the more effective way of presenting their image.
The customer is not the enemy...it's the challenge that is a great deal of the fun.
Posted by Bill Diaz (Member # 2549) on :
Sheila is right to remind us that we can thank our lucky stars that we have customers. As long as I've been chiming in on this BB, it's been obvious to me that, no matter where we call our home, sign people are constantly trying to come to grips with those few nasty customers who hurt our feelings.
It's hard to be creative day in and day out, and everybody knows that 1 bad apple C A N ruin a person's day. What's unique to our business is that the creative outlet needs to flow freely and uniterrupted. When a bad vibe comes in it short circuits the process. So it's probably healthy to have the BB to vent in order to get that process flowing again. If the nature of your biz is a lot of repeat jobs where you can go on auto-pilot, you will probably not need to vent as much.
When I have to really reach down and be creative, I find it easier to start in the wee hours of the morning before the phone rings and play appropriate music and stay away from the national news or anything else that will short circuit my creativity.
I wonder how other professions handle this. It's nice to vent, though, and also necessary to be thankful of all the good things that happen to us -- less we be struck by lightning for being cocky.
Posted by Frank Magoo (Member # 3950) on :
I've paid all my bills, bought all my toys, on the money of my customers. Bad customers? No! I just charge a little more per hour when I work for those considered bad by others. The customer is always right, even when they act like an idiot. The end of story is me cashing their check and spending it. Forty-five years so far, some glitches, not many.
Posted by Jane Diaz (Member # 595) on :
Can I VENT now!? I just had a lady call me and want to know who long it takes to get a banner. After I explained sometimes I don't have the size she might need on hand and if I had to order the blank, maybe a week to 10 days, she says "Well could I get one TONIGHT!!! I said, "Ma am, IT'S quarter till FIVE!! She said, "well, my brother is coming home from IRAQ, and we wanted a banner. I thought it was worth a try." and hung up!" I DO try to be helpful and answer the phone with a smile on my face, but sometimes I am amazed at how rude and stupid people can be!! I would have loved to help her, but how could anyone expect you to do something like that at 15 minutes!!! And then to just hang up like I was to blame because she forgot!! AAARRGGGHHHH!! Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
I don't have any nasty customers, because i fire them! After 37 years in this biz, I consider myself a professional. Here's what i do:
"Nephew Art"... I look at it and say, "not bad, but needs a little tweaking"
"Cheap SOB's"..."Look, I earn my living doing this, IF I can't make a profit, you can go bother someone else!"
"Arrogant, Elitists, or Know it Alls"...price goes up 10X!
"Idiots"... "Don't let the door hit ya in the a$$ on the way out!"
"Indcisive"..."Come back when you have decided."
Remember....if you charge enough for your time and talent...losing a few of the PIA's is not a financial burden!!!!! IF YOU ARE GETTING MORE THAN 50% OF THE JOBS... YOUR PRICES ARE TOO LOW!!!
Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
that's why i like you si! Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
hahahahaaaa Karyn....and all this time , ya thought that I was just another pretty face!
[ April 05, 2004, 08:17 PM: Message edited by: Si Allen ]
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Hehehe...words to live by Si. But no, "Go ahead...make my day" scenarios? hehehe
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