MDO just sucks anymore. 55.00 per sheet good one side and I hate even using it on small billboards. It's just worthless. What's your comments on it?
Posted by Mike Languein (Member # 319) on :
I just used a sheet of 1/2" good-two for - I think it cost around $26.00 - $28.00 - seemed fine to me - flat, hardly any gaps in the edge - time will tell. I love the stuff.
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Chuck,
Sounds to me like your making a pretty vague claim there.
So explain to me , what sucks about it?
What KIND of Mdo are you using??
and why in god's green earth would you use good one side?
It wasnt long before I realized that Good one side meant BAD on the other, there are so many voids and uneven surfaces on the bad side that it is almost impossible to seal it up properly. With all the sharp edges on the bad side there is too much risk left some small area was left vulnerable to the elements.
I always use good 2 sides no matter what, and through research and information on this board have only used Simpson brand MDO from my sign suppliers. Lumber company MDO is not the same (usually)
I use MDO all the time, depends on the job.
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
Hey Guys!
I've been using it for years, but now what I'm getting is Crap! The 55 bucks is for primed good one side with the back having a veneer (gray) that's about as good as the front side!
Bob, I always use good 2 too, but on this one it was in trade for something else plus it's a billboard, but I need a new supplier if it's not all crap. I've been hearing about the building of Iraq and all the materials we're shipping over there and wondered if that was part of the problem, but if I could get a hold of some Simpson that would be good.....I think!
Too bad we couldn't all get some kind of buying consortium going and save some money!
Have a good day
Posted by Dave Grundy (Member # 103) on :
Chuck...I buy my "Crezon" from ND Graphics. About the same prices as you mention.
For contractor's project signs which will be up for 1-2 years I just apply the info to the shiney primed white face and leave the champagne coloured back as is. I have been doing this for over 10 years and no problems or complaints. Those types of signs end up as wheelbarrow ramps after they come down anyway.
For long term applications I seal the edges with acrylic latex paintable caulking and spray paint both sides of G2S with Armorcoat gloss rust paint or Tremclad from Canadian Tire. For G1S I roll the backs with white exterior primer. The rust paint dries quickly (overnight) to a very high hard gloss finish. Again, I have had no complaints or failures and I drive by many of these signs regularly. They still look fine after 10 years, in some cases.
My only complaint is that G2S 3/4" is too damn heavy when loading and unloading the van!!!! Posted by TransLab (Member # 470) on :
Just one word
Dibond
I sleep better
Posted by Amy Brown (Member # 1963) on :
Around here it depends on the supplier. One of them has total crap MDO, even good two sides has all the layers peeling apart.
Those that carry Simpson seem to have the best product and it's the same price or cheaper. We just paid $47 good one side for Simpson. The backside is just as smooth as the front but will never be seen. We still paint it.
I think you should shop around. I don't know what brand the one crappy board is but I sure don't want to use it.
I wish these suppliers would carry more colors of Dibond other than white.
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
Thanks for the replies. I just emailed someone at Simpson! As far as the Dibond goes. It's a great product, but sometimes I like the thickness you know what I mean? I don't know what the brand is that my supplier carries. Never really mattered, but this stuff is purely a waste of time!
See ya
Posted by Curt Stenz (Member # 82) on :
I use a lot of MDO, 1/2" primed one side. The other side is factory marked "Simpson Backer". The salesman I have been purchasing from for over 15 years told me that painting this back side is not reccomended.
Always sand and slightly bevel the edges, two coats of primer on the edges, two coats enamel on the face. I have some panels up for over 8 years that are still fine, although a bit faded and chalking.
For a billboard I would use nothing else. For more upscale project sI have been using AlumaLite 1/2" panels. Can't quote a price but they are abound $90 - 4" x 8" and N.Glantz delivers right to my door and sometimes carries them in.
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Checkers
Posted by Murray MacDonald (Member # 3558) on :
I haven't used MDO for 3 or 4 years now. Got a half lift that delaminated in a bout three months and had to replace seven big signs. For me it's now dibond or Signply (Lusterboard).. great stuff. With MDO, by the time I primed , painted, did the edges, my cost was about $100... Signply is $110...and I don't have to worry about it. And I was using Simpson brand MDO. Just my 2 cents.
MUR
Posted by Bob Rochon (Member # 30) on :
Murray with all due respect, we all know sometimes you just get a bad batch, so what will happen when Dibond fails or Luster board?
Where you sure it was simpson? I have been told by my supplier they had simpson then shipped non simpson mdo before too.
Posted by Robert Larkham (Member # 2913) on :
ZERO Failure here....prep, prep, prep (properly)!
Posted by Richard Mercer (Member # 4574) on :
I just getting back into the sign biz after a hiatus, but I did 2-sided MDO exclusively for 6 years:
Seal any holes on the edges with wood filler. 2 coats primer 2-3 coats background color round off sharp edges so they don't chip and crack.
All the signs I painted 14 years ago are still up and are in better shape than some of these signs that have been up up 4 or 5 years.
I will be giving some of the other suggestions a try though: Lusterboard, etc... Knowledge is power.
Posted by Lotti Prokott (Member # 2684) on :
Hey Rick, that's because MDO was still real good stuff, 14 years ago. Even six or eight years ago it wasn't too bad. Since then it has gone downhill, but I'm still using some. I prep well and cross my fingers. Just now, I'm in the process of making a 6'x48' sign. If this one fails, I'm moving back to Switzerland and hide in the Alps.
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
Interesting... I just took down some small MDO signs that were being replaced. They were up since '99 and the paint had chipped and cracked on the edge, but no delamination. On the same job were two aluminum-faced plywood signs, which were completely delaminated. All these had been sealed/painted the same, in the same place under identical conditions.
I also have a piece of scrap MDO that I used for a shelf on my back deck at home. I deliberately didn't paint or seal it at all - just raw MDO. It's been out in the weather for two and a half years and has NOT delaminated.
There are different grades of MDO. The biggest market for cheap MDO is for concrete forms; this stuff isn't meant to be used for signs, though a lumber yard might not know the difference.
I always specify Simpson Signal or equivalent, good two side, and always paint both sides and seal the edges with titebond II waterproof glue. Buying cheap material and cutting corners on prep will most always come back and bite you.
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Chuck,
I've been using MDO for years and have signs hold up for 10+ years.
"Completely useless" seems a little harse. With good prepping, as mentioned above, it can still have it's uses in signage.
my 2 cents Rapid
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
I hate MDO! With a passion! All that prep work and it's heavy. You never know if you will get a bad batch, etc. I use (I can hear the sharp intake of breath from all of yins) PLYWOOD! $24/sheet, A/C exterior, edges puttied up, primed, sanded, coated out with 1-Shot. I have signs out there that are 10 years old and still look good (except for my lousy lettering) I used to use exterior latex house paint for the background until I started using dat demon vynull. But I rarely use anything but Alumalite now. (For a long-term sign) You know me: Coroplast all the way, baby. Love, Jill Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
Hi all,
I didn't expect this many replies! Thanks! I know how to seal, fab and protect MDO. My problem is after doing all the the finish of the boards themselves "Looks like crap". Take a hand full of dust, some chips of layers of plywood throw it all on a sheet of plywood and then veneer over it. Makes for nice smooth finish you can proudly ask top dollar for........NOT! The boards are junk and no amount of prepping is going to make any difference on the finish! So, thanks for the insight on MDO. I've found a Simpson distributor through Grimco. Good two sides, primed 42.00 6-10 boards.
Good luck you MDO users...
Posted by Pete Sharkins (Member # 4525) on :
Uh oh... Being into race car/truck lettering almost exclusively, I now know why I didn't want to be a "sign guy". I'm getting ready to install a 4'x44' sign 10' up on a building using vinyl on customer supplied 3/4" MDO of unknown vintage. (Customer is a sign painter from the 70's turned car salseman.) I think i'm either in for a long term, big PITA or chance to upsell... Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
Here are MY rules for MDO... to begin with, I order good quality (my supplier also sells the cheaper grade, for the price shoppers who sell 4x8's for $200 ). When it arrives, it is looked over - sheets with broken corners, lumpy veneer, etc. are not accepted; they go back on the truck, no exceptions. Do that a couple times, and suppliers start to respect you and don't send you junk. This way I get a smooth board that WILL make a decent finish.
I appreciate the frustration with MDO, and offer this as (hopefully) constructive advice, as how I deal with it.
Posted by DianeBalch (Member # 1301) on :
We have been in business for 10 years and those early signs stil look great (as do the ones that are 5 years old). We get ours from our local lumber yard . They get in Roseburg brand. We seal the edges with West systems epoxy - which we have thickened up to peanut butter consistency with their 410 filler (fairing compound), After sanding the edges, we prime one side and the edges with 2 coats of Jay Cook Primer , flip it over and do the back and sides with 2 coats. We do the same with the top coat- 2 coats of One Shot lettering enamel. So the edges have planty of paint! No failures yet.
Diane Balch
Posted by DianeBalch (Member # 1301) on :
We pay $40 for good 2 sides 1/2" $48 for good 2 sides 3/4"
Tried the good one side once, using the same edge sealing and painting techniques in my previous post--- The sign Warped terribly in about 2 months time. Never again- what crap-
Diane Balch
Posted by Kevin Gaffney (Member # 4240) on :
I use a lot of coloured aluminium for my bill board work if its only lettering. Can get 2mm from my supplier in about eight different colours with superb finish. If theres a lot of graphics, I cover the whole thing with edge print and it works great
Posted by Karen Wunch (Member # 3577) on :
Two words: "VIP Board" from our supplier, Sign Supply. It's not MDO, it's not plywood and *sorry, Cam* it's not all wood.
It's inexpensive. It's finished VERY well. A 4x8 comes completely sealed, edges and all. Actually? I think it's 'dunked'???? VERY technical, eh?
It's about $75/sheet. Nice stuff. Call or email and I'll send Supplier contact info.
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
Thanks again for the replies. I have a load of Simpson Signal board showing up today I hope. We'll see if MDO delima is over!
Karen, I'd like to know more about this VIP board too! Email me or post it here for the others as well.
Thanks again,
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
The only issue I have with "pre-edge-sealed" panels, is what happens when you cut them? I do very few 4x8s; most of the MDO in my shop is cut into shapes, some of them complex. I need to know that what I'm using can be sealed and will last without coming apart. Not knocking a new product, just explaining why I use what I use.
Posted by Chuck Gallagher (Member # 69) on :
I got the Simpson boards in Friday and they are flat! I'm happy with them and they came from Grimco if any others are having problems.
Thanks all,
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
The short answer: Almost.
The long version: I personally never use MDO anymore. . . everything is aluminum, which by the way, I can do cut-out's with too, either by jig-saw or 'tin-snips" and a good lil' file to smooth the edges.
Surface-prep time (labor) and material cost is cut in half or less.
(Someday I'm going to ba able to post pics, lol)
PS: This is not to say that MDO has not served me well, as I still have signs up that are over 10 years old and still look good. I have used it both ways too, but mostly MDO one side frequently. If I think it will the best substrate for something, I would use it again in the future.
[ April 03, 2004, 05:50 PM: Message edited by: Sheila Ferrell ]
Posted by jerry jaran (Member # 524) on :
Hi, I now use .040 aluminum and got 1 in. alum. sq. tubing, T's and corners from Wrisco out of Chicago if I need to stiffen it. I have a neat deburring tool the size of a pen to clean the edges after cutting with a hand held saber saw. Don't try to use a circular saw. I also have a hand held shear with replaceable blades that works great. I ordered the tubing in 21 ft lengths and it WILL be smashed in the middle when you get them. Just send them back and get replacements free and then that order will be smashed too but not as much so you can just use what you need around the smashed part.
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). When it arrives, it is looked over - sheets with broken corners, lumpy veneer, etc. are not accepted; they go back on the truck, no exceptions. Do that a couple times, and suppliers start to respect you and don't send you junk. This way I get a smooth board that WILL make a decent finish.