Anyone here having experiences (both good and bad) with sand blast etching auto glass (while on the car/truck?
Any tips?
Any warnings?
Cost charging?
Got some ideas...don't feel like experimenting on someones vehicle yet...gonna try my own first.
I know the proceedures just curious about results!
Posted by Michael Boone (Member # 308) on :
My neighbor usta do windows on cars with a small hand held grinding tool She was real good at it.. Email if you want a phone number
Posted by AdrienneMorgan (Member # 1046) on :
I saw a car with etched windows at Herb Martinez's a few years back (when Steve and Barb where here) Don't remember if he did the etching, or someone else, but he could probably tell you.
A:)
Posted by Harris Kohen (Member # 2139) on :
Monte
Contact Kissymatina about this, I remember she was telling me about some etching fluid you can purchase at Michaels Arts and crafts. All you need then is a stencil that you can cut from your plotter. I havent tried it yet but intend to. I know she has done some stuff with it, maybe she can help you out.
Or you could contact Dee at Hartco. I'm sure he would be glad to steer you in the right direction. Hartco is a vendor here.
[ March 22, 2004, 07:49 PM: Message edited by: Harris Kohen ]
Posted by Rovelle W. Gratz (Member # 4404) on :
If you want just an etched look...try Glassecher...Michaels has it, I think. Use a vinyl stencil. I even used to silk screen it on mirrors for bars.
I like Joey's method better.
[ March 23, 2004, 08:48 AM: Message edited by: Rovelle W. Gratz ]
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Yes Monte, I have in the past and still do have experience doing automobile glass. I use a Paasche Air Eraser which will frost as well as fog. This little unit is excellent for almost any glass for a downright fine finish. Whether its lettering or a mural, it works great. You can also use a mask and control the amount of etching do to its use of aluminum oxide which is very fine.
Cutting the glass with an engraver such as a Foredom, opens up a whole new can of worms. The Paasche Air Eraser was made for glass engraving, works somewhat like an Airbrush Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
I used to do winder etching for vin numbers and stuff like that on cars. I did some winders in Florida.
Use just about any winder etching creme. But be very carefull. Its second name is skin remover. That stuff will eat just about anything. Some is fast , some is slow
You will need some plastic gloves and eye protection. That creme will remove yer eyes too. Be sure not to wipe yer face or anything while wearing them gloves. That creme is worse than any paint.
its made form Ammonium Bifluoride Sulfuric Acid. XTREMELY TOXIC IF ingested..
avoid contact with mucous membranes and open cuts on skin. If there are no open cuts, creme will cause no harm to skin if it is washed off with soap and water ASAP.. Contact paper is a good mask pattern and masks. Be sure all edges are tight too.
Apply the creme in a thick coat with a foam brush and wait about 15 minutes. Be sure to get all the corners and sharp points well. Dont walk around chatting, don't allow kids to be there. (they WILL stick the fingers in it). Ask me how I know.
Wipe the creme off with towels and dispose of each one as you go. Cleanup with soap and water. lots of flowing water. Etching creme will eat every thing so flush it well. Lime will unreact it.
Now you can remove yer gloves. If you fail to wear gloves you wil lget stained fingers at least if not skin removed. And it is a painfull burn.
Posted by FranCisco Vargas (Member # 145) on :
Monte, I was going to suggest what Joey mentioned about the air eraser, that's how I got started in the sandblasting designs on glass. Anyway what you don't want to use is any type of sand on glass while it's on the vehicle, major problems! even if you mask it good, the sand and even the dust can do alot of damage, if it get under that hood or in the crevices. I used to do lot of lowrider cars, at the time I would use manila folders, cut out a rose or what ever they wanted, sprayed glue on the back of the material, and blast away with the little eraser. Now with computers and paint mask, makes things lot easier. But now with the frosted effect vinyl, it's even much faster, slap it on, you'll be saying...next
oh yeah, good idea to use a little respirator. and I would stay away from any acids or chemicals that could accidently cause for a new paint job.
[ March 23, 2004, 12:11 AM: Message edited by: FranCisco Vargas ]
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
No one ever gives me credit Cisco, cept'n friends like you Posted by Real Mercier (Member # 362) on :
I am mostly a hobbyist and it has been a while since I have done sandblasting on cars, but I have done it. It does a very nice job.
One thing I would watch for is that the windshield is safety glass, but usually the other windows are tempered glass. I would do a simple etch on the tempered glass, but be careful to not create a edge when blasting.
I hope this helps.
Real Mercier
Posted by Mike Contreras (Member # 1571) on :
Monte I have a machine for doing the lil engraving... It is called a Paragrave... we have had it for about 15 years... that thing still works great for doing the lil detail work... It is like a dremel but smaller.. does realy little engraving.. for flowers or eagles on windows.. We havent used it in 4 years for sure... Man I have to get that thing out again... Fun Stuff
We have also done a ton of sandblasting of lettering on the Windshields of cars .. I had one customer call me back and say that his lettering came off..??? I'm like what the Hell you talkin about MAN! that is Permanent!!!! WHen he washed the car, the window was wet and the etching looks like its gone until it dries....lol Humans Hmph!
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Mike Contreras, a Foredom is the tool that the Paragrave uses which is air operated. Paragrave also uses Foredom bits and such. If ya buying Paragrave parts, you're paying way too much.
Posted by Arthur Vanson (Member # 2855) on :
Joey, I'm a complete glass-blasting novice, but bought this cabinet, second-hand, to try and produce small decorative glass pieces like the 8"x5" cross. (Etchall cream too swirly for my taste) The only time I tried the cabinet, I couldn't see a thing, due to the dust-storm created within. I guess I need some new media! Assuming from this thread that you would recommend aluminium oxide? I understand there are a range of grades or grit sizes; if so which would be suitable for this task?
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Arthur, I'm strictly into vehicle artwork even though in the past have done the kind of thing you've posted. I believe Letterville resident Don Copelan would have a much broader outlook of what you should use. Maybe an email to him would prove enlightening.
Thank you Posted by Arthur Vanson (Member # 2855) on :
Thanks Joey Posted by FranCisco Vargas (Member # 145) on :
Anything for you Joey. I'm still waiting for your car to stop by. Maybe I better get off the porch now, I see your back home.
Arthur, nice piece you did there. I wish I had one of them cabinets, just a suggestion for the equipment you have, I would replace the glass. Aluminum Oxide will give you a frosted look, 30 grit sand will give you a more textured effect. I like to use that. You can also use glass beads, for some depth blasting (relief)
Posted by Mike Pipes (Member # 1573) on :
I like using the Air Eraser, it's easy to handle and with aluminum oxide it cuts glass very quickly. I made some monogrammed glasses for family the past holiday season, it took longer to produce and apply the masking than it took to etch the glass - each glass took just a few seconds to etch.
The fine aluminum oxide leaves a very fine, smooth surface behind, and it's not deep enough to hold dirt so road grime shouldn't be too difficult to clean off.
Posted by Arthur Vanson (Member # 2855) on :
Thanks very much Cisco, I understand, due to it's weight, that the shipping costs are far greater than the cost of the media itself, so it would be grand to get the right stuff first time. Cheers
[ March 23, 2004, 05:34 PM: Message edited by: Arthur Vanson ]
Posted by Kent Smith (Member # 251) on :
Joeys suggestion is the best although I have used Etchall cream with good success. Just don't try what Glawson and I did about 15 or so years ago. Had a big piece of auto grade tempered to use for the entry of a Shakey Jakes and blew it into a million pieces with the regular blaster. It was SPECTACULAR but not profitable.
Posted by Dan Streicher (Member # 4515) on :
Kent, Glad to hear I'm not the only one....man did the memory make me laugh....Hey did I meet you at NW Sign Supply for a demo yrs ago...probably 10-11yrs ago? just curious, meet so many people can't remember where.....oh and the piece of glass we shattered for "excitement" was 15' X 45' entry display window for Nordstrom (a high end chain store in our neck of the woods) it was as you say SPECTACULAR....but again not profitable....thanks for the laugh.
Posted by Mike Languein (Member # 319) on :
Ha ha ha, Cisco! "Throw some vinyl on there . . .Next..."
they won't know the difference.
Posted by DONALD THOMPSON (Member # 3726) on :
I just got finished doing a couple of pieces with Etch-All. It works pretty good. It just washes off with water. It would be a good way to go for starters. I got mine at Michael's. It isn't too expensive either, $20 for the big bottle.
Arthur, I love the design on that cross. Where did it come from? That is AWESOME!!!
Posted by Arthur Vanson (Member # 2855) on :
Hello Donald, Like you, I think that cross-design is stunning; I found it carved on a gravestone. A few miles up the road from where I live is lovely little 12th Century country churchyard and tucked away in one corner is an enclosure reserved for the Liberty family’s graves. They were the founders of Liberty’s, the prestigious London store, a bit like Harrod’s, I believe, though I don’t frequent such grand emporiums myself! Liberty’s played a large part in popularising Art Nouveau in Britain and some of the gravestones reflect this in beautiful Celtic knotwork rendered with Art Nouveau influences. That one in particular caught my eye, so I went back and took rubbings, miniaturised them (the original is about 70” tall) and then digitised it.
On tempered glass breakage - (I've done it too). My understanding is the tempering process involves heating and cooling the surface in a way that it has a different surface tension than the core of the glass. You only run into trouble when you penetrate deeper into the surface than the temper does. Then we all know what happens.
Abrasive blasting is the only way to get predictable shading (that I know of), and you're fine as long as you use fine enough grit and low enough pressure to get what you need without actually cutting. An air eraser is the the safest, but not very practical on large designs.
When I used to do it, I got by with a cheap garden-nozzle looking thing with a plastic cup on it and fine silica. I only blew up one piece before I knew about the surface thing - after that no problems - BUT - you know what Murphy says...
Which brings us to pricing - I can only think of two safe policies - either add replacement cost of the glass to every job or get a signed release against breakage before starting each job.Today, if my client wasn't comfortable with either of those scenarios I wouldn't be doing it. Hey, if you do some glass Monte, please share pics.
Posted by FranCisco Vargas (Member # 145) on :
Hahahahahaah Mike, I did! The last job I did for a client who wanted some sand blasting at a advertising place, it was a very slick place. After looking around, I knew I would have to make two plastic tents covering everything, especially with computers all around. I passed on that and mentioned to the client, of a "new way" how to achive that effect, Yeah, your right..."frosted vinyl!" Except, I took it one step further, I told em about the "embossed" look, kind of like a deep blast. They loved it!
Posted by AdrienneMorgan (Member # 1046) on :
On that eraser thingy....will that be applicable for small glue chip projects?
Eventually I will get a sandblasting set up at my new shop....
A:)
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
Thanks for the input...I'm going to do some experimenting in this area soon...your comments have been appreciated.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
that is Permanent!!!! WHen he washed the car, the window was wet and the etching looks like its gone until it dries....lol Humans Hmph!
![[Wink]](wink.gif)