I know I sound like the biggest dork going, but I only started charging for logo design last year. Just didn't know any better, plain & simple.
Two days ago, a customer came in with a ball cap and a rubber stamp for me to try to glean enough of their 25-year-old logo to scan.
I managed to get a choppy scan of it, which I only spent about 10 minutes tidying up. It is pretty nasty. I had told the man I would also try a new idea for the logo, and that if he wanted to purchase the artwork for t-shirts, ads, etc., there would be an additional fee. This was written in my proposal as well.
He came back yesterday to order his signs. He brought his brother, who had more of a handle on things. Both men were actually very nice. They loved what I had done. There was a small dicussion about color changes. Ended up ordering signs with the new logo, etc. Brother #1 had a phone call and went outside while Brother #2 signed the contract and gave me a deposit check.
Everything was fine, or so I thought. A few hours later they were back. Brother #1 thought I had pulled a fast one on him by getting Brother #2 (the treasurer) to sign the contract & give me a deposit while he was on the phone. It was not done purposely on my part.
Brother #1 was a bit huffy but not rude. He said "I don't understand this logo charge on the contract. All you did was type in a few words from a program. To me, that is NOT a logo."
I explained that indeed it was. I had spent an hour the night before, researching crowns (the logo has a crown in it) scanning, cleaning, fine-tuning, and then another 15 minutes with the brothers while we discussed colors, etc. I told them that they would be provided with art on a disc and camera-ready pages as well. Much better for future advertising than a ball cap and a rubber stamp!
Brother #2 immediately said he agreed that it would be great to buy the logo. Brother #1 said "well, we just want that one you did on our signs. The old logo will still be on all our business cards, etc."
I said that would be perfectly fine with me, but they would only get the art on their sign, no sketches, no discs, nuthin. I asked how much they had paid for the initial logo 25 years ago. Brother #2 said, "oh, some high school girl just did that for free!"
I said "How much are you paying a year for a yellow page ad? You can use this logo FOREVER for just this one-time fee!"
Then they saw what I was getting at. They knew their old logo was bad. They loved my logo. I am going to get to PAINT it on the side of their building come summer. It all worked out in the end.
Just blowing off some steam. But people need to realize that what we do is NOT just pulling a "font" out of our butt and slapping it onto some vynull.
I am SO glad I woke up and am now making extra $$ for something I used to just GIVE away. Love...JILL
Posted by Mark Smith (Member # 298) on :
Jill,
I would've likely blown 'em out of the water. I really respect your grace under pressure and it sounds like you made lemonade out of a biiiiiiiiiig lemon!
Congratulations -
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Jilly
On occasion we are called upon to defend our reasonable charges. It is an education process for most of our clients who are borderline clueless. Sometimes I feel like we are trail blazers in our field. Now he knows that no matter where he goes, it is customary to charge for our talent. I hate when they say that about our sign program.
My programs cost me nearly 10K for all I have. Not including the plotter, edge, storefront, insurance, artist, billing, shop truck, oh yea, and I have a life too! I usually ask, "do you want text on a board, or do you want a sign?" I am not a vinyl jockey. They are down the street. Hang in there girl!
Oh yea, I agree with Mark too!
Regards,
[ March 11, 2004, 08:51 AM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
Posted by faye welsh (Member # 2524) on :
here's to a lady who is blossoming before my eyes! yea! one giant step for woman signpainters/artists.people will go to wallymart and buy a couch painting , kitchen wall craft sign(the awful welcome to my kitchen signs), and pay more than they are willling to pay for real talent.duh? the computers have attempted to bring signs,art,cards,etc. into the home. but, a computer cranked sign , with no talent applied , is like a wooden tulip in the yard. cute, but no life inside. when i see signs on here, they are full of creative energy. maybe i look through rose colored glasses, but you all deserve what you make.congratulations,jillbean. you're growing up, dammit girl! Posted by Janette Balogh (Member # 192) on :
You da gal Jill!
Keep on that path girl!
Hugs, Nettie
Posted by Darrell Giese (Member # 768) on :
WTG Jill!
[ March 11, 2004, 10:27 AM: Message edited by: Darrell Giese ]
Posted by Jon Aston (Member # 1725) on :
Way ta go Jill!
It's important to understand the value added you bring to the table.
If this was just a matter of "typing a few words in a program", why didn't they do it?
Answer: They can't. They haven't invested in the software (etc). They haven't invested in the "education". You have.
They don't have the knowledge or skills...you do.
This is of value to them...especially when put in the context of what "message" they are sending customers and prospective customers with a logo that looks like a kid designed it. Projecting a professional image is probably worth much more to them than you charged.
Kudos for sticking to your guns...and keep doing it!
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
By the way....the old logo is on top. Mine is on the bottom. It ain't the best, but I prefer it. Love...JILL Posted by Kimberly Zanetti (Member # 2546) on :
WooHoo!!! There is no comparison! The one on top is AWFUL...I really like yours!
Good for you!
Posted by faye welsh (Member # 2524) on :
hey sis, at first glance the first one looks like POO-KING! maybe that is what the brother is....lol....searching for the captain's log.....lol fiddles
Posted by faye welsh (Member # 2524) on :
is that a baby ruth dotting that I????ewwww.... Posted by Barb Schilling (Member # 13) on :
Nice Job Jill. Sounds like you handled the discussion well too! Don't forget if you do a logo that DOES require your hand drawing skills (not "pull a type out of your *** and print it out"), you need to charge an additional fee. I tell my logo customers this up front. Call or email me and I'll discuss it further if you like.
Posted by Barb Schilling (Member # 13) on :
OOPS, hope you caught my sarcasm in my post above. I don't believe you would "pull a type out of your *** and print it" and call it a logo. Even if a logo is type only, there is still a considerable amount of time, effort, skill and consideration involved in the process. I was referring to your customer's uneducated viewpoint. Posted by James Donahue (Member # 3624) on :
Good points Jon Aston.
And Jill, thanks for the details. So much better than "I charged for a logo today, it was great."
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
Hey Jill!! Don'cha feel like a million bucks!! Or at least a little richer? It adds immensley to your peace of mind, self-worth and well-being too...it's really just an' all-around excellent self-esteem promoter when we git treated with respect or at least money, lol for what we do. I'm glad they were nice enought to let'cha explain it too.
Sometimes people wanna get in that competitive, jew-me-down thang and then I have to stop 'em and say, "Don't go no futher now, unless ya wanna pay the 'haggle-fee' too. If so, ante-up the full 'haggle-fee' first an' then we'll get it on"
PS. Your new logo looks great! Hope the high-school girl is plannin' to either to go to art school or gettin' another career altogether, lol
[ March 11, 2004, 04:33 PM: Message edited by: Sheila Ferrell ]
Posted by Robert Thomas (Member # 1356) on :
Jillbeans, I charge for everything now. Consultaions, Design, etc. Your time is money. GET PAID FOR IT. Sorry for shouting. You are worth it. Raise your hourly rate while you are at it. $60. an hour minimum
I make $100-$150 hr on some jobs. $60 minimum
It cost a lot of money to be in business.
Cheers
PS Don't act like you need the work, act like they need your services!
[ March 12, 2004, 12:21 AM: Message edited by: Robert Thomas ]
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hope you caught my sarcasm in my post above. I don't believe you would "pull a type out of your *** and print it" and call it a logo. Even if a logo is type only, there is still a considerable amount of time, effort, skill and consideration involved in the process. I was referring to your customer's uneducated viewpoint. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
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