After numerous interviews, I have narrowed the field down to two finalists:
#1 Fresh out of school w/BFA fresh talent, great attitude. Can get her as "entry level" artist. It would be her first art job.
#2 Worked self employed for six years. Costs more money, (larger wage), also has a BFA in visual communications. Freelances on the side, I am worried about a conflict of interest with our sign studio, but he has definate talent.
Hoth have great drive and attitude. Both have impressive portfolio. What tests can I give them on the software to make my decision for me?? Thanks Heads.
Regards,
Posted by David Wright (Member # 111) on :
Are you hiring artists or sign people Rick? I need more than designers for my work. I don't need to run down the list of skills and attributes that we all know are much needed in most sign shops. Good luck with your decision.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
there was a great post on some similar thread last year & someone came up with some very interesting tests, like walking through the shop with a 8' long 2x4 to see if someone is a clutz, or if they can think 4'in front & in back of themselves & walk at the same time. Sounds goofy at first (especially if I imagine acually testing someone) but it does make sense. Not sure if it was Bob Stephens or not, but maybe him. There were some other similar strange test suggestions along those lines.
I think the first art job person is:
more trainable
more likely to respect your role as "the boss"
more likely to develop the right good habits conducive to the particulars of your shop, instead of maintaining bad habits carried over from a past job.
more appreciative of the opportunity to work for you
more likely to stay longer & grow more loyal
less likely to go out in business for themselves as soon as they finish learning all about your business
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
I'd say your tests would depend on what you want them to do.
Try handing them a work order, and let them take it from there. You'll know pretty fast what they do know.
Give them a simple layout to do, perhaps one for a signboard and one for a side of a truck and see what they can do with it and how long it takes.
Give them a bitmap and have them vectorize it.
You get the idea. Good luck! Sounds like you have one to fall back on if the other doesn't work out. Not a shabby position to be in. Posted by Kelly Thorson (Member # 2958) on :
The phrases "freelances on the side" and "has definite talent" spell TROUBLE to me. Posted by Brenda Daley (Beaupit) (Member # 37) on :
I would go with the experience personally. Yeah, freelance....but are they really a threat?? Depends on how you look at it. If you keep it open, even let them use space shop (not materials) and after hours only, than you get to keep an eye on what they are doing. Have a contract written up that they can not do business with any of your clients on the side. If they have a problem signing it, then you know you can not trust them. Tell her what your concerns are so that she is aware and knows your watching. Always keep communication open! You never know....the fact that she has had her own business for 6 years...she may be bringing clients to you!!! Look after her well and she may loose interest in working extra hours from home.
I wish I could find someone of her experience. I've hired several times and it just does not work out because I don't have the time to train anyone!!!!
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
Most designers freelance...I do and my boss know it, unless you are willing to pay enough...between 40-70k a year and do really cool work...you can expect a creative person to find an outlet..the best way is freelance..but definitley follow Brenda advice and get thing in writing upfront.
Posted by TJ Duvall (Member # 3133) on :
What Doug said. Unless you constantly want someone saying "why do you do it that way I have always done it this way and it works much better." That gets real annoying real quick.
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
I think I'd be concerned about how they each handle criticism. When someone designs something and the boss or customer request something changed that leaves them feeling rubbed the wrong way, can they cheerfully roll with it ?
I'd be concerned as to whether their designs are what they want to do or what they feel would best serve the customer's customers?
When you have a design person that works better alone than on a team, you have a team problem.
They all start out with a good presentation, but for you to anticipate who will hold the high attitude is your challenge.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Rick C. and Brenda are right....Freelance shouldn't worry you.
I don't agree with the "more trainable" theory either, because the guy is stated to be very talented and has had his own business...which to me means that he can and has the ability to think on his feet and has a personal respect for the stress and financial burdens that go along with ownership of a business.
The guy will need less training, as he has already been deeply involved in the business.
He'll be less apt to whine about everything, because "he's been there" and will have a degree of empathy for the owner that a standard "employee" doesn't understand.
And I think that ANY person genuinely looking for a job will appreciate the opportunity for work. After all, they have bills to pay too.
Having said that, I think either sounds like they would be good.
[ March 04, 2004, 09:39 AM: Message edited by: Todd Gill ]
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Wise words, Mr. Sacks! That whole team concept is real important here. Maybe today they design, but after lunch weeding needs to be done, or an install is needed. Will their tiny little ego permit such grunt work? Also Kelly, Doug, I appreciated your incites as well.
Mr Chavez, I know no artists making 40-70K a year even when the economy is booming. So, if an artist decides to freelance later, It's their gig, I guess. But I am not sure I want to enter that from the get-go.
The other side is that they may bring sign work that they cannot handle in their home office. Someone suggested having them do a layout of a real sign. I think that is a simple basic test I can use. Thanks to all who responded.
Todd, we must have posted at the same time. The Newby is from your almamater Kendall. Therefore I do place some credence to her BFA. I do respect what you say about the "been there" feelings too.
Regards
[ March 04, 2004, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: Rick Beisiegel ]
Posted by Dana Bowers (Member # 780) on :
I'm really watching this thread, from the potential employee point of view. It's very insightful to see all that is taken into consideration and how that can help me when looking for work.
People can always learn new systems. What about 'un-learning' old habits that might conflict with your shop's way? I'm looking at that now, as I am not totally up to date on stuff, but I learn quickly. Maybe being out of sign stuff everyday for so long, would help me to learn routines specific for the shop I apply at easier?
What about personality types and how well they will mesh in your team? What about humour or sensitivity? Or overly sensitive?
Do you have a casual work environment, or very professional? I personally find it easier to work in a casual environment. Not that you shouldn't present yourself as a professional to the customer, but I wanna wear funky socks and write thought provoking statements on the board (if a clock is hungry, does it goes back four seconds?)
What about trustworthy enough to be left alone, unsupervised?
Besides what you may ask the potential employee to do for you to prove you should hire them, what extra little tidbit could the person to do on their own to convince you to hire them? What one action, statement, etc would really put you over the edge to that decision?
[ March 04, 2004, 10:45 AM: Message edited by: Dana Bowers ]
Posted by faye welsh (Member # 2524) on :
rick, a young mind is easily molded, and fresh ideas are so valuable. it will bring a lively spirit to your shop. my daughter , a biochemist, was interviewing for her first lab job, a few years ago. a small lab took a chance on her. she became just the ticket for them. her eagerness, fresh knowledge, yet undaunted spirit brought much inspiration to their tiny lab. they were able to receive grants, international publication in a science journal,and more interested technicians to their lab. in 2 years time, her salary has tripled and she has definitely moved up in the world. age=28, female. if noone gave youth and experience a chance, where would we all be???WALMART?? Posted by Chuck Peterson (Member # 70) on :
I need my help to know basic sign making skills, not neccessarily design and layout ability. I do all that. That was my sign shop employee test I posted awhile back, I'll go over it briefly. After a talk to determine if they have an agreeable personality, I have them draw a line, say 4 3/8 long. then draw a rectangle 8" in area, not 8" square, then find the center. If they can do that quickly without my help, they probably possess all the layout skills I need them to have. Then on to the carrying a 2x4 thru the shop without knocking anything over, etc. I have seen several decent artists who cannot read a ruler or remember to sand all rough edges before priming, etc. Edit: I had a few more steps in there about identifying mistakes in a layout such as thick & thin letter transposed.
[ March 04, 2004, 11:45 AM: Message edited by: Chuck Peterson ]
Posted by Chuck Peterson (Member # 70) on :
Rick, sorry I probably didn't address your question directly, I'm just looking at it from my perspective. I have found that a good helper keeps me busy doing what I do best while they do the menial and repetitive stuff. But them I only want to be a one man shop with a part time helper.
Posted by Rick Chavez (Member # 2146) on :
You do now Rick...... As a designer most of us have side work unrelated to signage...I happen to have a lot of it myself, and my employer is cool with it because when you work on a hospital, or Airport job for over a year, you get a little jittery...creativley, you need an outlet or a hobby it just happens to make money, most real designers have to have that outlet, just like most here probably take thier work home with them. I do agree though, a designer is a team player all the way, design weed clean the toilets if the work needs to be done...do it...
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