Hello Everyone! I have watched this site for years and am just a quiet stay to myself guy, but would like to share a little bit of my resent story with all of you as many of you are small business owners I think it will be of value to you. Thank you all for your time in reading this and allowing me to share with you.
I am still a young man have been in this industry for 15 years as a career but also grew up in the sign business, I owned my own company for 8 years until recently when I sold it because of my story that follows (selling the business is a whole different chapter, if any of you are ever considering that route and would like to hear my input on the subject feel free to contact me.)
On a weekend away from the shop which I finally was able to do (take two days off every week) I was out at a friends house and we were all riding on a Go-Ped a stand up scooter, kind of like a skateboard with a motor, and I wrecked, literally you could touch my toes to the back of my calf (mind you this was two years ago and has resulted in 8 surgeries since) I am not telling you this story for any sympathy I just want you all to think about your insurance that you hold as business owners and what would happen to your business, and family if you ecountered a similar injury. So I go to urgent care and the lady who took the X Rays says "SH!T" (literally) I knew I was in trouble, the Dr. looks at them and writes me a prescription for some pain meds and says you will have to go see a specialist on Monday for surgery, so we procede, thankful that my business had grown to a level that I could afford a staff that could keep the business running without me at least for a little while and that I had medical insurance at this point in my career (3 years earlier I didn't have any and thought I couldn't afford it, if you fall in to this scenario PLEASE think that one over) first surgery passes and we get the bill while waiting for our insurance to pay up ($77,000.00) well we get a not from our insurance that the coverage we have that over $50,000 in a single incident we are responsible for half of the amount beyond the 50K (oh SH!T) check into your coverage and see what yours is I bet it is an eye opener and it is really easy in this day and age to reach 50K, to summarize this whole deal our insurance was great for going to the doctor for colds and such it was horrible for a massive injury, see what you have so that you do not end up with a big surprise, I will save you the drama of the last two years and the other 7 surgeries that have resulted in fusion and I can no longer climb a ladder (time to consider another line of work) and I want to point out a few things to you to think over, could your business survive if you were seriously injured, do you have a employee that you can trust and that is trained to do nearly everything that you do (I think as a small business owner many of us make our business dependant on ourselves and our skills when we should be using our money to hire people that are better than us, we are not replaceable we own the company) do you have adequate insurance for a major injury? If you had to sell your business, is it worth anything without you? do you have anything saved for a rainy day (and if you have a massive injury there's going to be more than one rainy day I guarantee that)
I just want all of you as small business owners to think about what a serious injury would do to you, your family, and your business, and figure out what you can do to minimize your losses if something terrible was to happen, instead of having to figure it out after the fact. I thank all of you for taking the time to read this rambling story, stay off of motorized scooters ... they are for little kids not adults Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
quote: could your business survive if you were seriously injured?...
do you have a employee that you can trust and that is trained to do nearly everything that you do?...
do you have adequate insurance for a major injury?...
If you had to sell your business, is it worth anything without you?...
do you have anything saved for a rainy day?...
NO
NO
NO
NO
& NO... BUMMER!
Thanks for the heads up. Not sure what I'll do about it just yet though, guess I'll take the scooter advice for now
[ February 28, 2004, 04:12 PM: Message edited by: Doug Allan ]
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
Dan, thanks for scaring the crap outta us. I spend more on insurance than on food, and fortunatly, they've come through for me so far.
The world is filled with insurance scams and sales people that sell you as much as you can afford, knowing it's not adequate. Imagine how much better we would be if you became the honest insurance representitive here? That could become your new line of work, and you could be watching our ass ets.
Posted by Dan Streicher (Member # 4515) on :
I guess in regards to insurance I'd justlike to say that visiting the doctor or having insurance and having the ability to visit the doctor should not be the only thing you look at when purchasing your insurance, I think the salespeople who sell insurance pull the wool over our eyes and assume (rightly so) that we are not capable of thinking about a major injury, it is relatively affordable to go to the doctors office, it is not affordable to end up in the hospital make sure you have adequate coverage on the hospital side versus the doctors visit side. It is not hard to rack up a $50,000 hospital bill, you could do that in less than a day at the hospital. I've always been told that you should have a minimum of 3 months living expenses in savings if you are self employed I'd consider more, if you are self employed and have a family and are the primary "bread winner".... I'd even consider more.... just FYI I was finally approved for Social Security Benefits, it only took them 15 months to even reply to my case and then benefits are just short of $900 a month, it is something we should all think about as small business owners and especially in a trade that requires us to do "real work" ACCIDENTS DO HAPPEN, just think if you were simply to break a leg, or worse the hand you write/paint/sketch/weed vinyl with... just something to think about
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Dan,
Like you, I suffered a wrist injury that resulted in the need for bone fusion. This was back in in 1986. At that time I was employed by a company who provided excellent health insurance and I was never so glad for it. The medical bills that were incurred totalled well over $60,000 in six months.
Last year I had a couple of occurances of Bursitis, the second of which led to further injuries by my compensting for it. A torn rotator cuff in my right (painting hand) shoulder and 2 herniated discs in my neck. Again, insurance did cover the medical bills, but certainly not cost of downtime in the shop or the basic costs of keeping the business operating at a much less productive pace. (one man shop) This time around, the advantages of having gotten worker's compensation from my former employer were notably absent, and by the time the paperwork was filled out and processed to collect temporary unemployment benefits from the government, I was pretty much able to get back to busness as usual. Even the short term injurys can have long term effects on your wallet.
Still wish they could undo bone fusions...I was a much better drummer before then...lol Rapid
Posted by PKing (Member # 337) on :
My insurance covers DEATH which will take care of my wife! My business is ME that goes where I go! Hospitals have payment plans BETTER for me!
Life is SCARY enough on a day by day bases
[ February 29, 2004, 12:39 AM: Message edited by: PKing ]
Posted by John Deaton III (Member # 925) on :
Last year, I was diagnosed with a pinched nerve in my neck. They wanted to do an MRI, but that costs 2000, and I have no insurance. So I opted for some therapy, which still cost me 50 per session, of which I had 8 sessons, which helped alot. I still have a numb left shoulder and part of my forearm, but most of the strength has came back. I was out about 1000 for doc bills and therapy. Then in the fall, I had some problems with stress for which the doc put me on Zoloft. The Zoloft costs about 100 per refill, and Ive been on them for about six months. The doc bills on all that came to about 800. I have checked on several insurance plans, but you can buy a house for what the monthly payment is. Hopefully, Ill stay healthy from now on.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
well all i can say...is in this country..you have the right to die as poor as you came into this life. also any of you been watching the evening news? RATIONING OF HEALTH CARE. unless something is done only the rich will have any medical help. and to answer your question.. my answers are same as doug's!!!!
Posted by Deb Fowler (Member # 1039) on :
a book called "the cost of being sick" relates that our credit will be based on how healthy or sick we are. That means that if you want to buy that Lexus or Hatteras, you best have some cash since some of the wealthiest have huge insurance rates due to poor health... sorry about the penmanship, I'm just on my way out the door..but, it's something to think about. I'll get the author's name and correct title later tonight and post. (in other words, cherish your health!)
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
(LOL uncle Pat )
Dan, What you have shared here is nothing less than good, everyday business sense and ties in perfectly with Monte's recent post and others discussing raising our prices. Insurance is an overhead expense that should be included in our mark-up. (I mean any insurance you need for job related or for your family as well) I have even heard some say that if you can't afford insurance you have no business being in business!
It is something that I try not to "panic" or really "worry" over because you can't get blood out of a turnip. Quite honestly, I've had to just put that in the Good Lord's hands since I believe with all my heart I'm doin' what I'm sposed to be doin': paintin' signs. But this is something that I think would be a wise investment as you have so clearly illustrated.
I believe that by raising my prices I will be able to do the right thing in this area.
I'm sure you've noticed that the kind of business/liability insurance needed for our line of work is outrageous. I can't even afford the "commercial" insurance on my truck. I just have regular.
As far as saying things like: ..don't ride a scooter or do'nt this or do'nt do that . . . . I don't believe you can't have any fun!! I think you should just live everyday as if it's your last. Anything can happen . .. Someone with no insurance could plow into you at anytime and do even more damage . . .things happen.
In your defense though, I did turn down driving a 1/2 mi. dirt track car for a season because the owner could provide nothing "in case" . . .and I thought, . . . man, I got 2 kids . . .if somethin' happened. . . . Well, I guess you have to pick-n-choose your "funs".
Anyway, great thinking material. Thanx.
[ February 29, 2004, 03:49 PM: Message edited by: Sheila Ferrell ]
Posted by AdrienneMorgan (Member # 1046) on :
When I fell through the deck in my backyard 2 years ago and broke my foot real bad...it started a chain of events that dramaticly changed my life... I couldn't work, (at all for months)had to keep my foot elevated too high to even work at my computer, cost of living in my modest California neighborhood was too high for me anymore, so I packed up everything I owned and moved to Northwest Washington, only able to work part time (still) and get by with the help of my family and boyfriend in CA. I'm still in litigation with the lawsuit against my landlord (who claims he didn't have insurance at the time ) and have lost clients, the full ability to do all the things I used to and racked up 8K in credit card debt...if I had business insurance I might have been able to pay my bills instead of charging them. I pay my own health insurance (Kaiser) every month, which saved me from the higher medical bills. Good subject....curious what others do... Adrienne
Posted by Print Wright (Member # 850) on :
Hi there It doesn't have to be you that gets sick. In our case our teenage daughter developed an auto immune disease 14 months ago and spent over 12 months in the capital city hospital. Our busy business went form a 2 person to a part time one person as my wife stayed in the city to be with our daughter and I commuted. We to sold our business (6 months ago) as it became impossible to run the business (signage and general printing). Fortunately we have a good health care system in Australia. Imagine paying for 13 months hospital stay, some of which was in intensive care. As well the current medication would be well out of most peoples ability to pay for. One lot alone is 20k/year. She is now home requiring full time care (little mobility) but will hopefully continue to improve. Kerry Wright
Posted by Dan Streicher (Member # 4515) on :
just a reply especially after reading Sheila's input, I didn't quite know how to say it in my original post; if you can't afford insurance, you can't afford to be in business, or something to that effect that Sheila added. At least in our area (portland OR) but I would assume all over the country there are so many people in this business and many other businesses for that matter, that shouldn't be in business. Many "business" owners in this area are content making $15 a hour or whatever dollar amount you want, if you are in business to make an hourly wage you should be working for someone else and not dragging our profession and the prices of our services down. You should be in business to make a profit, profits are better than wages anyday. If you are not making a profit, you should find something different to do, anyone can work for free and even worse are the people who are paying to be in business (if you are showing a loss, you are paying to be in business and if you do it long enough you will bankrupt yourself). Many people that have gone into business for themselves have created low paying jobs for themselves and not built a business, many people are excellent amazing craftsmen but being a professional businessman/woman is a skill in itself. Which takes me back to my original post, be honest with yourself and ask yourself if you are truly building a business, would it be worth anything other than what you could get for your tools and inventory if you had to sell it or better yet chose to sell it. I don't mean to ruffle any feathers, I am just pointing out somethings that I had to deal with myself in having to sell my business and having to look at the truth. We are in a industry where the success of our businesses relies mostly on the relationships that we have built, there are no guarantees that when you sell your business that the new owner will be able to keep those relationships (trust me on that one after living through it. So to tie this in to my original post I am just trying to point out that you have to look beyond the moment and figure our how YOU can make your business provide security for you and your family in the future if something unexpected should happen and even better yet something planned happens (RETIREMENT or better yet building a business that is profitable and operational without you so that you can enjoy other aspects of life if you choose to)
FIGURE OUT YOUR HOURLY SHOP RATE and stick to it so that you are profitable (ours was $67.50 per man hour) we are all highly specialized professionals and we need to be paid accordingly. there is only a few ways to produce a less expensive product for our customers either learn how to make it faster, more efficiently or negotiate better deals on materials (which are a very small cost in any sign project)
Make certain that you as a small business person provide benefits for yourself, insurance, etc. if there are no benefits and low pay you need to go and get a job.
Prepare and save for your future, there are tremendous benefits for being self employed, if you don't take advantage of them why be in business for yourself and take on all of the stress and risk?
and use your hard earned money (invest it) to hire people with skills that will make you more money, most of us hire people with skills that are lower than ours (for lack of a better word) when what we should be doing is hiring up, hiring people that have skills that will make us money, people that have skills that we are lacking. Good grief I'm all over the place, enough said.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
LOL Dan, ..."all over the place", but in a good way. . . . (it really gets ya thinkin' don't it?)
Like you said a lotta incredibley talented people just don't have a "business head" . . .the only reason I have a semblance of one is because of my Mother, a book store manager for 13 yrs.+, and my Dad, USAF Ret, was a used-car dealer for years.
Here's another way to put our thoughts into a paragraph or two: If you or I were to go out job hunting, one of the first things we'd be EXPECTING would be a great insurance benefits package. . . .yet here I am workin' for me and I won't provide me one!! My boss sucks, huh? ...She says she "can't afford it", but her common sense says "she can't afford NOT to!!"
I ought'a be as good to me as anybody I might work for would be, so I am giving myself raises accordingly so that I can give me an insurance plan. LOL, me, myself and I. That's THREE dependents . . .reckun I cud' get a cheaper group rate?
ANYWAY, all this will eventually bring me to another cross-roads which is:
If I continue to raise my prices to the place where I will be able to afford such insurance, but I cull-out not only bargain-hunter customers, but middle-end jobs as well, and the high-end jobs are somewhat few an' far between so that my work load is greatly reduced, then my income will technically be back to square one, but my time will be open for mabey gettin' a 2nd job with the benefits I want. Unfortunately, jobs that pay such benefits are full-time jobs, putting me back into an unruly work load. . . . It's quite the "dog-chasing-his-tail" scenerio.
I know others are doin' this. It would be great to hear from ya'll.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Dan, I think you make some great points, BUT even if we can't fit into the ideal mold you describe, your alternatives are far from the only choice.
quote: Make certain that you as a small business person provide benefits for yourself, insurance, etc. if there are no benefits and low pay you need to go and get a job.
"go get a job" is sometimes easier said then done, & I imagine the difficulty of getting a decent job is one of the reasons some of us work for ourselves. This past year is the first year I ever felt I could afford to have health insurance & I have a very minimal policy. Of course one could say "you can't afford NOT to have health insurance"... but you can't afford NOT to eat either, & I remember well the times when there was enough money to do one or the other... not both. For me, I chose to eat
When I moved to Maui, I was able to get a job driving an airport shuttle for $7/hr plus tips. If I ever moved up to full time, I would have recieved a minimal health insurance policy by law. My guess is many folks are kept at part time for that reason. I quit the first day because the job sucked. Then I worked for a sign shop for $10/hr as a subcontractor responsible for my own taxes & health care etc.
My taxable net income is rather low, but my business expenses provide me a comfortable work environment incluing a nice shop truck, nice office renovations up to date computer equipment. Most importantly, I am happy every day running this business.
I could never imagine letting a fear of injury justify sacrificing my daily happiness as a business owner doing something I love to instead be someone elses employee just to have more health benefits I may never need.
Posted by Dan Streicher (Member # 4515) on :
Doug, I would not let the fear of anything alone keep me from doing any paricular activity, I would however take a good look at the risks involved and make a decision from there and move forward or not move forward. Everyone should do that, and I am thankful that we are all responsible for ourselves and our decisions, however I don't think some people go through the process of considering the potential risks involved in a activity and they just jump in. My point in this whole thread is to just give everyone something to think about a risk that I overlooked and had to pay for the consequences.
As a overly educated business person (MBA) and a past owner of a sign company and having grown up in a family that owned a sign company I also found myself sharing some things that I notice to be wrong (in my opinion) with the beliefs and behaviors of some business owners in our industry. I just feel that many people in our profession have no business being in business it is a craft of its own that needs to be researched, studied, and then you need to put what you learned into practice. I personally don't believe that in most cases you should start a business because you can't find any other work, I think in that situation you should learn to skills or build upon the skills that you have and make yourself desirable to potential employers, I believe that you should go into business if you believe that you can make a substantially better income than you would working for someone else, we are all in business to make money if someone tells you something different I believe that they are either not being honest with themselves or not being honest with you, yes there are many other reasons and benefits to being in business but it all comes down to money.
You get what you settle for....
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
quote:Originally posted by Dan Streicher: My point in this whole thread is to just give everyone something to think about a risk that I overlooked and had to pay for the consequences. ...
I still agree with your main point Dan but I do see a big difference between your wording & mine re: lack of job options influencing a business ownership decision.
quote:Originally posted by Dan Streicher: ...I personally don't believe that in most cases you should start a business because you can't find any other work....
quote:Originally posted by Doug Allan: I imagine the difficulty of getting a decent job is one of the reasons some of us work for ourselves.
I guess I'll "settle for" being an under educated (college dropout)captain of my own ship knowing I could make a substantially better income today by working for someone else. Of course as I also continue to build upon my current skill set, I increase the equity & viability of my business, so I feel much better growth potentiality & long term job security being in charge.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
I am insurance poor! We spend over $7000 a year for insurances NOT counting health insurance for our deserving artist. Its amazing that small business is surviving in the turmoil of the current economy.
It's a fact that over 90% of the worlds population has NO health insurance. I have tried to leave my wife in a comfortable position, but there's only so much we can do. It comes to a point where we are spending too much on "what if's" and wind up neglecting what is tangable and in front of us.
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
I think very important to bear in mind that the vast majority of us who became self-employed in this business have done so because of sheer talent and love for the creative process that we have combined with a knowledge of the alphabet as an art form.
Had we all chosen to be artists only, we might be starving while trying to compete in a flooded market.
The sign business has afforded us the best of both worlds . . . the creativity that comes with the high-end work we strive for get as well as the "bread & butter" signs we may have to do to keep the bills paid.
With or with out insurance, I will always be better off earning a living by the brush (lol, OR the vinyl) than I would be doing anything else.
It is a calling.
Yet, I also believe beyond the philosophical, spiritual, emotional, or idealistic motivations, that there is wisdom in the simple notion of "Always be Prepared".
MAN . . . it's hard bein' a poetic realist, lol. I get SO tired of seein' both sides of everything.
![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
) and have lost clients, the full ability to do all the things I used to and racked up 8K in credit card debt...if I had business insurance I might have been able to pay my bills instead of charging them.