I have had vinyl failure on two Ford Trucks recently. One was lettered with High Performance in 2002. Lettering is now bubbling. Other truck was lettered a year ago with Intermediate. The vinyl is now lifting. Neither was a repaint. I do approximately 50-60 trucks a year. Any ideas?
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
dotn know about bubbling but the lifting of intermediate is common. It fails fast. And it wil llift or curl early if you stretched it while applying it. Thats all i can say from the info you gave.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
probably has nothing to do with it being a ford...i would look more to the colors of the truck, colors of the vinyl. the use salt in the winter in new york, add to that cold and then days of bright sun. the vinyl is being subjected to a lot temp variations. do these trucks belong to a chemical type company? are they subjected to pressure washings with harsh chemicals....lot of variables......old vinyl? bad batch of vinyl? teflon waxed trucks? and the list goes on......
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
LOL, OP, that IS the problem. That's a ford for ya. "Stick with" chevys. Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Jerry, what did you clean with ?
Roger
Posted by Jerry Starpoli (Member # 1559) on :
Roger, I cleaned the vehicles the same as always. I am talking of two specific failures on Ford Trucks. Somehow, I don't do many Fords. I realize you are trying to promote the sale of your prep product which I have used on occasion. Some of your proucts are excellent. I love the Rapid Tack II for glass applications, but your products are not all things for every application. I could go on and on about this, but that will not answer the question that I asked about Ford Trucks. Thanks for all your input.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Jerry
I too do many Ford trucks. I think Roger's question is a good one. The same thing happened to me with a new Chevrolet police car, and the BB turned it into a lack of prep issue. I won't say my prep is always perfect, But, in my case it was a product failure.....my one and only product failure ever. The manufacturer admitted that, and more that made up for it.
This is not a Ford/Chevy issue either. You may need to research what brand of vinyl you used. And, for your own peace of mind, research your prep product. Then hit it twice when cleaning.
Whatever you do, take care of the client TODAY! NQA! (no questions asked) They will remember it, and tell their fellow contractors all about your great service.
Posted by Pam Eddy (Member # 1858) on :
If they are new Ford pickups, check to see if they came from the same dealership. I had a local Ford dealership that was putting some nasty something another on their vehicles to make them "Shine" more for the customer. It was that teflon stuff or some petroleum stuff that was popular a while back. My prep cleaners where not cutting through the stuff and nothing would stick. Even a body shop had to strip a fender down to bare metal once because the owner got a hold of some of the petroleum based stuff and it was causing problems with the automotive paint they were reparing the truck with.
Back in the 80s some local car detailing places were selling this Apple Polishing System stuff. Fine if you were not going to paint or vinyl the vehicle later.
Just an idea.
Pam
Posted by Jerry Starpoli (Member # 1559) on :
Thanks Pam. They both did come from the same dealer. Rick, I always stand by whatever I do.I do know what vinyl I used and was surprised that this only happened to these Fords. I just called the dealer and they use a quick wax. No Teflons or anything like that. I am baffled.
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Guess your not going to tell us how you cleaned it ?
You asked a question, I'm trying to help answer, sorry your so upset with how I promote/help, I'll try to remember that Jerry.
Roger
Posted by Jerry Starpoli (Member # 1559) on :
Roger, Thanks for the threat. I wash the truck with heavy soap and then clean thrice with the same Wax and Tar remover that every auto body shop uses before the do anything. Then clean twice with alcohol. I did over 120 trucks in the past two years, and these are the only two that came back. What am I doing wrong?
Posted by Jillbeans (Member # 1912) on :
Jerry... Pam's post was especially intuitive. I was thinking "were they the same color?" but I think she is onto something. Good Luck. Love...JILL
Posted by Jerry Starpoli (Member # 1559) on :
One is Deep Red, the other Midnite Blue. Must be that I didn't use Rapid Prep on these two and all the others that I didn't have a problem with. The dealer swears that they do not use anything other than Wizard Quick Wax. I have been doing the sign thing since I was 11 years old and now am 63. Things do happen. Most of us try to learn from our failures. I guess this will have to be one of those unsolved mysteries. Thanks to all that tried to help.
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Threat ?????????????
Ahhh, I'm lost !
Posted by Brenda Daley (Beaupit) (Member # 37) on :
The wizard quick wax is the problem. You may have cleaned well, but there would still be wax left behind. Any type of wax surface will build a barrier between the vehicle and the adhesive. Once the wax brakes down, the adhesive will let go and be left to bubble. I would suggest getting a sample of that wax and doing some in shop tests before you re-letter any vehicles from that location.
Posted by Jerry Starpoli (Member # 1559) on :
Thanks to all! Over and Out.
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
As a auto painter I was constantly searching for a better way, the silicone issue was a regular problem and would rear its head in the middle of a custom paint job.
We would wash with all the care (prep solvents),sometimes two cleanings, and tack off, only to have "fish eye" blow up somewhere, these solvents we cleaned with are 40 or 50 year old formulas,they are oil derivitive formulas, and don't always get the entire amount of silicone out of the old finish,alcohol won't bring up the silicone any better.
Just my 2 cents, without advertising !
Roger
Posted by John Deaton III (Member # 925) on :
Roger, I for one appreciate your comments and help. Your products make our work much easier.
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Ditto to JD's comments Roger. But I see Jerry's frustration too. No doubt the client is frustrated and Jerry feels it. Much like I felt with the patrol car issue a few months ago.
Your produsts are superior, and your input is good. It's just the timing I guess, we don't like warranty work...who does.
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
I know to some I am a "snake oil salesman" I'v dealt with that for 6 years on the boards, And I guess to some my excitement and beleifs in my products are annoying, but its a wonderfull thing to be able to help a person who voices they're need for assistance.
Yes I have a need to sell my products, no less then the same need you all experiance, but I feel that when you guys are happy and knowledgeable, (especially if I can help get you there)then there will be a level of trust and product loyality.
I mean no harm, I make no threats, I only want you guys to be as productive and happy as possible and to have my products and advise be a big part of the reason !!
You can bank on the fact that I won't give poor advise, period.
Roger (thanks for listening) Posted by Michael Boone (Member # 308) on :
I have never had any problems whatsoever using rapidprep..its a great product and just for the record.....ALL New Yorkers are NOT nasty.....just a few of em!!
Posted by Maris Schilling (Member # 537) on :
I've been using GON after washing a vehicle. I use GON twice before lettering and have not had a reported problem. Good Luck Maris
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
roger..you seen the movie "GUMPIE OLD MEN"? thats jerry. and hes 63 and been doin this since he was 11......and hes set in his ways...to old to change. like i said earlier, coulda been a bad batch of vinyl..or old vinyl by the time you recieved it...it does happen. this QUICK WAX thy put on...id really look to see that it doesnt contain TEFLON or some dirivitve of it.
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
Sell away Roger.
I never used any RT stuff until you sent me samples. And, I've never had a failure while using RT stuff. It works plain and simple. The Rapid Prep is a magic cleaner. It has saved more than a few jobs when some strange secrete formula the customer used kept my vinyl from sticking. Who knows what they are using on their vehicles and windows?
Rapid Remover is my secrete juice. I sell it for $10.00 in 2 oz. bottles I get from Walmart. I dream of the day when I can buy sample size bottles from ya.
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Well, all you folks have done it again, you have made me feel good again !!
I guess I shouldn't let things get to me so much, and am trying more these days.
Thanks for understanding and your kind support !
Roger Posted by Jerry Starpoli (Member # 1559) on :
Sorry that I asked a question here and even knew how to spell. There were a few replies that actually had something to do with my question. Thanks to those that did try. Sorry to have wanted real information. Maybe I need a picture posted?
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Hey Now!
Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
Starpoli next time why don't you post the answer you want people to give and save every one some time? There's obviously an answer you want to hear and the fact that you may have done something to cause the problem yourself sure isn't one of em...what you want is an excuse to blame the product at the expense of everything else..... and you're not getting it so you choose to cop an attitude with those that offered assistance and dismiss them right away b/c you're sure what they told you is wrong.....if thats the case you must know the cause so why ask the question in the first place? Next time maybe use the search feature and save yourself the indignation of having to deal with those you deem not worthy of answering you...or better yet post that picture so that everyone can stop their day and concentrate on why you feel that cleaning a vehicle with wax and grease remover,smearing that mess around with alcohol and then using intermediate vinyl on a vehicle is a good idea in the first place and certain to remain a trouble free procedure for years into the future.
Posted by roger bailey (Member # 556) on :
Gavin, not only do you have a great insight on products and procedures, but what a way with words. YEEEEEEEHAAAAAAAA Roger Posted by Jerry Starpoli (Member # 1559) on :
YOU ARE THE GREATEST. THANKS FOR EVERYTHING. Posted by Gavin Chachere (Member # 1443) on :
Next time be willing to take what you dish out
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
Posted by Frank Magoo (Member # 3950) on :
Posted by Barb. Shortreed (Member # 1730) on :
Come on you guys. Leave your guns and egos at home before visiting Letterville. I know you are not always going to love one another, but let's try to exercize a bit more tolerance for ideas and suggestions offered. Concentrate on fixing problems rather than fixing the blame.
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