I’m well aware I’m probably opening a can of worms here and/or may get run out of town.
A little history or you can go right to the point below.
I fall into the category of a 20+ year sign painter/maker that over the last 5-6 years has went from 95% hand lettering to 99.5% vinyl lettering. I hadn’t attended a “live” Letterhead meet in several years. Last summer my family and I went to the Walldog meet in Atlanta IL. It wasn’t until we were hangin’ out around the panel area that I sort of discovered that my kids (7&9yr olds) couldn’t remember seeing me hand letter anything. Quite honestly I was very inspired by the panels and had every intention to go home and show them I could do it.
Reality...right back to the grind stone of vinyl as usual.
A few months later I happen to take a stroll down the sidewalk in Letterville and decided to move back into town. (I’ve been in the county of Vinylville for a while and it’s sometimes dull and tacky) Soon after being back I looked into upcoming live meets. My family and I were looking forward to going to Jill’s p.j. party but some smoke of our own kept us from that. Then we decided on the Winter Muster. From what I’ve read here, like others, this is as close to a vacation as we seem to get. We were all pretty cranked up about going.
Now to the point...
We showed up about noon on Thursday...brush box in hand and ready for a few days of slingin’ paint and havin’ fun. Shortly after being there the smoke was getting the best of me. I wasn’t sure if it was just me being cranky or not. (I had pulled an all nighter Wed. night to get things done so we could go) So we left Mike’s to go for a ride.
We are a non-smoking family and admittedly have a low tolerance to cigarette/cigar smoke. We talked about it and decided since we were there early in the meet several more people would be showin’ up and the smoke would probably just get worse...so it was a very short meet for us.
I realize the host of a meet has the right to do as they please since in most cases the meet is in there own shops. I’m in NO way bashing Mike Meyer or the Winter Muster. I’m glad to see that a lot of people had a good time and wish very much that we could have stayed.
The main reason for this post is...We would still like to attend more meets in the future. I had considered contacting each host privately in regard to the smoking/non-smoking status of their meet but I had a couple of people at Mike’s comment on the smoke also and after stewing on it for a while I decided to put this out in the open.
I DO NOT want this to be a post about smoking -vs- non-smoking. I would just like to see what others think about letting the smoking/non-smoking status of a meet be known ahead of time? Should I just attend outdoor meets? Or have I alienated myself... should put up a for sale sign...and move back to Vinylville?
Jeff
Posted by KARYN BUSH (Member # 1948) on :
i understand your issues...i hate cigarette smoke, and it is very difficult for me to be around it. i've only been to 2 meets and i'd have to say the majority(and it may be close) are smokers. i just learned who to stay away from inside. i must say i didn't run into anyone rude...and alot of folks are kind enough to go outside...but then again the meets i went to were summer time...i could see sub zero temps making people smoke inside. it will be interesting to see what others have to say. maybe that's why i'm so hermit-like...??? Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Jeff,
One of the meets Karyn mentioned above was Mass Mayhem last year. I was there also, and as a smoker, I found that the host, Mike Z, prefers that people smoke outside. The other meets I attended last year did not specify either way, but I habitually step outside for a smoke anyway, more or less as a courtesy to those who don't smoke. I've been in the habit of doing so in other group situations for years and don't feel it's much of a bother.
Rapid
Posted by Murray MacDonald (Member # 3558) on :
I don't want to get into an argument about smoking, I think it is a vile, filthy, disgusting habit (and I love it), but I do understand how it can affect non-smokers. During my first day at the Muster, I went outside to smoke, being from a city that has banned smoking in public places and used to being ostracized. Frequently met Pat Neve out there, too. Then I realized that many people were smoking inside, and revelling in this newfound freedom, I went right along with it. Sorry that you had to cut your visit short. Mike being the great host he is, would, I am sure, have made some kind of arrangement for a non-smoking area if he had realized the need, but it just seems to be a way of life there. Want a fresh air experience? Try Pat Welter's Paint the Prairie II meet next July. He has it in a whacking big tent, and there ain't no lack of breeze.
MUR
Posted by Joe Endicott (Member # 628) on :
I was at the Muster, and shared the same thoughts.
I spent a lot of time taking breaks from the smoke on the front sidewalk. Every now and then, someone would walk outside right next to me for a smoke-break. Luckily, my sense of humor allows me to see the irony there and laugh about it.
It also amazes me that none of the solvent smells bug me (hell, I don't even notice them anymore), but I can smell cigarette smoke from the car in front of me on the Interstate, above the exhaust fumes.
Florida's Clean Air Act has been a blessing for me. I can enjoy Waffle House again.
As far as meets are concerned, you may need to try to stick to the warmer months, and make sure that there will be some things going on outside, so you don't feel like you're missing something when you step out.
Anyway, Jeff, you're not alone. Sorry you had to split early.
Posted by mike meyer (Member # 542) on :
Jeff, thanks for your honesty and the comments on the meet. This DOES concern me and I am greatfull that people like you respond to this situation because I cannot run a meet to satisfy everyone but I will do EVERYTHING I can to get as close to that as possible! I have had a few others from the meet describe the smoke issue, good and bad. In the future I want to make a Non/smoking area, because I believe, like you, there needs to be a place for this very thing. I did have a commercial smoke air Purifier and the doors wide open but still, smoke lingers and cannot be carried away sometimes.
Please accept my apoligy for anyone that may have been offended by the smoke, I will do what I can to make it fun and friendly for everyone!
Thanks for the clocks Jeff! Please come again, we'll be perfecting the Muster each time we hold a meet, thanks to your input, more people will not be turning away because of smoke.
Thanks again to the Honesty of Letterville Residents!
Sincerly Mike
Posted by Monte Jumper (Member # 1106) on :
Come to Fred's...Those that smoke ,do it outside ...and the shop is divided up so you can always find a way from any drifting smoke...I've heard a lot of people compliment Fred and Marilyn on their smokless environment during the meets.
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
I've only been to two meets, both in Canada and it's illegal to smoke indoors here. I wouldn't even have thought of this possibility. Thanks for the heads up. And a timely post for future meet hosts.
Jeff, don't feel bad about speaking up. The only difference between you and me is I'd have spoken up at the meet at some point. It would have cost me alot of money to make it there and darned if I'd come home early because of smoke.
Posted by Jeff Spradling (Member # 1615) on :
No apology needed, Mike. Please don't let this post take away from the good time many people had. I have always tried to be honest and tactfully speak my mind. Some get offended, some don't. Thanks for not!
We are glad to see that your 2005 Muster is going to be in the summer. We are very interested in attending that meet!
You're welcome! (clocks)
Sincerely, Jeff
Posted by Jane Diaz (Member # 595) on :
This is a tough issue! Being an ex-smoker I can totally sympathize with both sides of the issue. There were times when I had quit smoking only to go to a meet and take it up again because I could not resist the temptation all around me! I THINK I have successfully dropped the habit now, but there is still an urge to "bum" one when I am around smokers. And then there are times when we go out to a somewhere for dinner and I can't wait to get out of there and away from the smoke! It just takes my breath away. I don't know what the answer to this issue is. I would HOPE that smokers would feel for others and go outside. Even when I was smoking a pack a day, I never smoked in our house...I didn't want to expose my kids to it. But now out of the three boys, one is a smoker...I fact that I feel resposible for and regret! To me, this is just an issue of hospitality and others' health. We have all been in homes and cars that smell like ash trays. No smoker can say it is a habit they WANT to have! Most smokers would like to be able to quit, for their health, for others' health, for the money they would save....but we all know it is VERY HARD TO DO!! The other side of this is THEY might be offended by your loud music that you were playing at the meet, or your cologne, or the fact that you cleared your throat all day...whatever. The whole thing boils down to the fact that some habits are annoying to others and I think people should realize that what they are doing is offending or annoying and TRY to make the other person more comfortable. Whether or not you REALIZE that your habit is offending others is the issue. Not everyone else feels this way (I'm pretty sure) but to me it is just a matter of hospitality and getting along with your fellow man. I think if I knew that my smoking bothered you, or my music was too loud, I would have stopped or at the very least, gone to another area...did you let people know that it bothered you? The bad part about this is that you had to suffer in silence and that the situation might have been resolved if people knew that you didn't like it. But I know how that can be a problem. Some people don't respond well when you ask them to smoke somewhere else! I can't think of a good solution to this problem...any one else?
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
As a smoker, I feel I'm obligated to not expose others to my habits. I smoke outdoors or as far away as possible from non smokers. Not just as a matter of courtesy but as a health concern too. If I go to a restaurant, I prefer the smoking section mainly because there's very few or any ankle biters or obnoxious crying babies there. Now if we could get people to realize that talking loud on a cell phone or an incorrigible child in a public annoys smokers as much as smoking annoys a non smoker, life would be good. BTW, at home I smoke outside or in the garage. Never in the house.
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Suelynn Sedor (Member # 442) on :
I am an ex-smoker too, so I do understand both sides. At the FKAB meet, everyone smoked outside so it wasn't even an issue. I guess I assumed it would be the same at every meet.
It is not illegal to smoke inside all over Canada. We still have restaurants and bars that have smoking and non-smoking sections in Saskatchewan. I LOVE the non-smoking places, but realize that smokers need a place to go too. Quitting was literally the hardest thing I ever did, so I can understand why so many struggle with it.
There has got to be a way to please both sides. Perhaps keeping the main areas smoke-free and designate a smoking area.
Suelynn
Posted by Brenda Daley (Beaupit) (Member # 37) on :
I myself being a smoker and one of the ones smoking at Mike's meet appreciate all your comments. I should have known better and feel bad that I may have been partly responsible for anyone's discomfort. I guess I got too caught up in the fun and wasn't thinking about others. Your comments will be respected at the next meet I attend....but hopefully I will have kicked the nasty habit by then!:0 Thank you for speaking up!
Posted by Curtis hammond (Member # 2170) on :
I am in the non group too. The smoke really bothers me. But, it is not because of what I think about it. It's because of what it does to me physically. Any one who has been around me knows that my body physically reacts to it. Just like I have a bad cold. The same is for my youngest too. But for him it is much worse. Hence, no one smokes in my house or business.
And, if I may say it, my family has stopped going to so many functions because of it. No bars, indoor no parties, and some restaurants.
This fact does have a strong influence on the choices where we go. Likewise, many people in my social circle do not smoke either. We all tend not to go where the smoke from smokers is trapped. So, from this angle I know from personal experience that some people will not go to places where they cannot get away from it. Some of us will quietly call ahead to find out if there will be a safe haven. Living in the south in the summer means closed doors and winders for the A/C. And that might include meets locked indoors.
Rather than say anything we often either leave, not go, or suffer it for as short a time as possible. We don't say anything because through the years a few have taken a personal offense to it, or a few said if you don't like it ,, leave, or we dont wish to hurt others' feelings about it, or out of respect for "their" space.
I laugh every time I think of one person's face who felt it was his duty to punish me by making sure all his smoke was blown in my direction. He walked into my office as a possible vendor when I was commisioner for the Jr. Olympics at the Superdome. A true Kodak moment.
Thank you for the chance to mention this..
[ February 17, 2004, 11:53 AM: Message edited by: Curtis hammond ]
Posted by Mike Languein (Member # 319) on :
I quit smoking 30 years ago - I can relate to both sides but I truly enjoy the non-smoking status California has these days. It surprises me when out of staters visit and start clawing their faces off in restaurants because they can't fumigate the place like they do back home. I visited with Si when Don Coplen was here and it was like the tear gas room at Boot Camp. Smokers, please...give our dainty lungs a break...
Posted by Neil D. Butler (Member # 661) on :
I have to leave this topic now, the smoke is bothering me too much.lol
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
Jane, while I do totally agree different habits we all have can disturb others, when it becomes a real health issue, to me that's in a separate catagory. The only remedy I can understand is to have smoke in an area that is well ventilated and away from others ie: outside. Inside traps it, there's just no good way around it.
Posted by Roy Frisby (Member # 736) on :
I smoked for almost 20 years and quit 24 years ago, but I had a wife that continued to smoke. Well, guess who the smoke bothered the most, me, lung cancer and all. My ex stills smoke like a steam engine but thank goodness I don't have to be around it anymore. My shop is strictly non-smoking, NO EXCEPTIONS
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
iam an EX-SMOKER, i know the feeling of the addiction, and thats what it is. no different then havin a crack addiction...yea i know crack is illegal....and cigarettes arent. iam speaking of what it does to your body, and how it takes your life away while its tellin you, YOU NEED ME!!!! i smoked 30 yrs. till i was 42, yea i started at about 10-12 yrs. old. after 3 heart attacks. i never went to a hospital, but my dad died from 8 of em,(3 pack a day pall malls) and he was 50 when he died. my mom a non-smoker made it to 70 with 4-5 heart attacks....all hers was "2nd hand smoke" she ran a local bar from 1957-78 when she died. so i know what they are .....i seen both of them in the throws of a couple. i went to mark fairs meet, my 1st, and it was oct in montgomery, al. days the shop was open, but as it cooled in the evening the doors got closed. only time i had any problems. iam like curtis, and probably more so since i did smoke and dont now. my body goes into this state of almost complete shut down of being able to breath, i feel short of breath, and my nose runs and i cough up crap for a week after being exposed. since then i have been to other meets, and i tend to only go to ones when the weather is conducive to having an "open shop", this way i get mostly fresh air and no smoke. and i want to thank geo perkins and ok chris, 2 guys i have shared a room with at meets, who did not smoke in the rooms to excess, because i was there, thank you guys again. also iam with joe endicott, in fl. with the non-smoking public places. even when i smoked, i never could smoke while i was eating...........and usually waited till i got outside to light up. this tid bit is funny, as a kid in pa. we didnt have cigarettes for our 1st smoke. minw was some dried corn silk, rolled up in some newpaper. YEA...NASTY AS IT GETS!!! made me sick and almost puked. now we go to the day i quit smokin....ian 42 and this pain in my chest starts while iam sleeping, hurts so bad i got to get up to a vertical position. oh and this is the 2nd one starting, had the 1st one 2-3 days ago, and blamed it on something i ate....now theirs "denile" at is best!!! so i get up go to living room and sit in my recliner till it subsides(bout an hour) well now i really need a cigarette.......i pull one outa the pack, now when i light it(and i didnt light the filter)the only taste in my mouth...WAS OF THAT NEWSPAPER AND CORN SILK of my 1st cigarette!!!! and that was the last one i ever lite up!!!!!
Posted by W. R. Pickett (Member # 3842) on :
Smoking is a fire hazard (and insaurance liability) that should never be allowed in ANY sign shop... let alone in any public place.
It is TOTALLY GROSS and any one who feels they have some right to smoke around other people, ever, is TOTALLY SELFISH. But, DRUG ADDICTS are always selfish, aren't they? It's the nature of the "beast".
At least society is finally starting to restrict these miserable users from sharing their problem with "non users". !
Posted by Rick Beisiegel (Member # 3723) on :
I have never smoked, my wife is an ex smoker. I am bothered by salesmen and job applicants who show up to do business, and the stench is more than I can take. I have dealt with "clean" smokers as well. Not a problem.
I had a guy stop by to sell me long distance service. He stunk like peppermint cigarette smoke....YUK. We are free to do whatever we want. However, I always appreciate a smoker who respects my space as I do theirs. (My .02)
Regards,
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
As a smoker I agree with the discomforts of those who don't smoke and therefore agree they shouldn't be put in any position which upsets their mobility. I for one do not smoke in their presence even though I'm addicted. I work with non smokers on a daily basis, I also work with non drinkers, beer drinkers upset me, ya know those belligerent people who always have a beer in their hand, talking nascar, and the ones who drink and drive!
I believe that there are tools which can completly absorb all odors including paints, pets, beer and smoke in the workplace and should be used in every shop for whatever odor may be present, I use one in my home which covers the entire structure and also in the shop, I like the fact that they work in any controlled envirement.
I dislike persons who aren't perfect but act like they are, we're all sinners here and thats just the way it is. No matter what addition one may have whether it be smoking, drinking or not showering on a daily basis, why must anyone put another in any position they aren't accustomed to. Lets open up the whole can while cleaning up our own act at the same time Posted by Ryan E Young (Member # 2325) on :
Just for the info the dixie meet will be smoke free! Except outside. The smoke was worse at the muster due to everything being inside due to the cold but it didnt mess it up for me. Still had a great time and will be there next time.
Posted by Jane Diaz (Member # 595) on :
Donna, I totally agree about the health issue. That's why I quit! But my point, and I agree with Joey, is we all have our bad habits and things that annoy others. To me, it is just about being tolerant of each other and if something really bothers you, speak up and let people remedy the situation. And if you ARE the problem, be gracious enough to apologize and clean up your act. I would HOPE if someone asked nicely, it should be easily resolved....but if they don't know it is bothering you, how can they do something about it? ...in my humble opinion....
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
I never smoked (since 7th grade anyway) but I seem to tolerate it a little better then some since I'm fortunant to not have serious physical reactions to it.
I'm only adding to this to say ditto to Joey... especially because if there's one thing I dislike worse then people inadvertently inconveniencing others with their habits it is "persons who aren't perfect but act like they are" Posted by Peter Schuttinga (Member # 2821) on :
Jeff, thanks for approaching this subject with tact. Mike, thanks for responding in an open manner. I'm a non-smoker who grew up in a smoke environment, Dad rolled his own, drum tobacco, fingers are permanently yellow. Never thought anything off it either, just didn't know any differrent. Things certainly have changed, and as Donna mentioned that it is now illegal to smoke in all public indoor places in BC. Being away from that smoke now makes it tougher to be around it. I don't discourage smoking, nor do I comment negatively to a smoker about their habit. In fact I ussually strongly encourage smokers to go and light up, as it means that there will be more pension money for me.
PS My Dad, who just turned 65, now has emphasema, has had half his left lung removed, is on oxygen permanently, and is weighs in at a wopping 120 lbs ( he used to be 6'2" tall). He still sneaks a puff now and then. I don't have to discourage my kids from smoking, he's doing that for me by example. Happy retirement Dad... Posted by Stephen Faulkner (Member # 2511) on :
Jeff I appreciate your tackfulness on this post, something to be learned there.
just for the recordI have never spat my tabacky on anyone
I find smoke from a burnt router bit on mahogany more offensive than cigeretts.
Posted by Maris Schilling (Member # 537) on :
I was not aware of people smoking. I am not a smokereither. However I sure did enjoy th smell of all those thinners! Maris
Posted by Bruce Bowers (Member # 892) on :
What?!?! No smoking at the Dixie meet? Well, heck, then I ain't going...
to smoke indoors, anyways! LOL!
Smoke 'em if you got 'em!
Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
Quit smoking 23 year ago and can't stand the smell of it.Brian how is it going to be in the Maritimes? Shouldn't have any smoking any where near paint products and no acception.
[ February 17, 2004, 07:28 PM: Message edited by: Randy Campbell ]
Posted by John Lennig (Member # 2455) on :
Come On, Randy!!! Isn't that why water based paints were invented?
John Lennig / SignRider
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
WR....thanks for being so gentle and subtle about your feelings!
Must be nice to be so perfect!
Posted by Kissymatina (Member # 2028) on :
I try not to smoke around people that it bothers unless they are rude and demanding about it.
Checkers, I've actually quit going to some restaurants that are 'smoke-free' cause I'm sick and tired of not being able to hear the person I'm sitting a foot away from over the screaming kid 20 feet away.
I've been to meets where we were POLITELY asked to smoke outside & no one got upset. I've been to meets where there was a seperate area for smokers, again no one got upset.
Now, as for some asshole here to try to tell me I shouldn't be allowed to smoke in my own damn shop, he can kiss my ass. Just goes to further verify the opinion I already had of that person.
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
Woa, some of these posts are really coming off as arrogant. The habit is the problem, not the people. Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Youch! It's getting brutal here and there.
Ok, here's my story:
I tried smoking a cigarette once when I was in high school. I inhaled one puff and thought both lungs were going to flop right out of my throat. I coughed for ten minutes straight.
I thought, "who in hell can do this?" You actually have to torture yourself to the point of taming your lung's natural response to reject foreign materials.
I'd like to hear some smoking stories on how smokers first got USED TO smoking....seriously. I am curious what the process was for them to say, "Hey, I finally am able to overcome the physical pain."
Funny story (to me at least): Years ago when I was younger I used to go to McDonald's with my Grandpa for coffee. This was back when they used to have these cheap little tin ashtrays they put on the tables.
We'd sit down to drink our coffee and the first thing he did was knock the ashtray off the table onto the floor and exclaim, "I'd rather someone jumped up on the table, pulled their pants down and take a schitt on the table over having these dirty ashtrays where you eat....at least a crap is natural."
I swear, he used to embarrass me to no ends...
I never could stand the smell of cig smoke...even asked my wife on our first date if she smoked (she didn't).
I have to be very careful, because I admit I tend to draw a bad picture of people I see who are smoking. I have to remind myself that they are probably good people who happen to have a bad habit....just like I have bad habits...except I do resent that their habit infringes on my right to enjoy a healthy atmosphere that doesn't make me stink....aaaargh...see, I have to watch myself.
It seems humorous, although unnatural to put something in your mouth, set it on fire and suck and suck and suck on it....
My neighbor is a really nice guy but an addicted chain smoker. He can't even get through two sentances without going into a hacking attack that lasts for a full minute or two.
I know he must have emphasema.....but he won't go to the doctor for fear of what he'll learn. Poor guy, he must be about 60 but looks 80....has super wrinkly skin, a voice that sounds like 3 miles of gravel road, and yellow teeth.
But a heck of a nice guy.
My bad habit is nail biting. Someone told me that that is a major cause for appendicitis...those little bits of finger nails get caught in that little "tit" and can cause it to become inflamed..... Posted by Jeff Spradling (Member # 1615) on :
Thank you to the heads here with their kind words and positive comments.
Thank you to Monte and Ryan for answering my true question at hand .
To the others that got pretty cranked up, I’m sorry. I do strive to be as good of person as I can be but I’m definitely not without faults of my own. I do tend to speak my mind but try hard not to tell people what to do or how to do it with out being asked to. The reason I didn’t say anything to Mike at the meet is, I would never tell someone what to do in their own house/shop. If I’m not comfortable in any surrounding or situation I simply remove myself from it. As I said earlier in this thread I just meant to give a heads up to myself and anyone else interested in the status of the subject at hand at future meets.
The matter of smoking -vs- non smoking in my opinion is just like politics and such that doesn’t need to be brought up here and cause grief between the many good people here.
Thank all, Jeff
Posted by Joey Madden (Member # 1192) on :
Jeff, you seem like a gentleman and I appreciate your honest outlook and courtesy towards others.
Todd, It is said by Freud that nail biting is mostly due to an oral fixation.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
todd and i agreeing on something.....DAMN.....hehehehehehehehe i dont see myself as being perfect...and some would agree that iam a perfect A**HOLE!!! and that being said, perfect is not what iam trying to be....smarter is a better word. and my earlier post was nothing more...then this dope....gettin smart!!!!!
Posted by Dawn Ellis (Member # 3529) on :
Jeff, I'm glad that you brought this up. I wholeheartedly agree that this is not about smoking vs. not smoking but about implementing a system whereby non-smokers can know before they go to a meet whether the enviroment at that meet is one in which they can be comfortable. Living in Southern California where everything is smoke free meant that it never occured to me to even ask this question. The Winter Muster was my first meet and had I known about the smoking I would have chosen another meet to attend. My participation was limited because I had a headache, sore throat and was generally uncomfortable. I regretted not being able to join in the evening festivities and finally left one day early.
Posted by AdrienneMorgan (Member # 1046) on :
Jeff, thanks for bringing this up...
I'm another non smoker that gets ill around smoke.
Ppl have the right to smoke, we all have the right to do what ever we want, and I'm sorry for those you can't quit, I've never smoked, but I am sympathetic when it comes to addictions.
A few years back I went to Jimmy's Dixie meet. Never thought to ask about the smoking situation...
There were aprox 60 letterheads at this meet, all but 6 were smokers. AND...almost all of them smoked inside the shop.
The smoke was so thick ,I was ill for most of the weekend. There was a huge exhaust fan at the oppisite end of the shop, but after running it a few minutes it was shut off due to the complaints of the smokers who were 'feeling cold' (heck, it was 80 degrees outside!)
I resolved that there was nothing that could be done about it, and since I had spent so much money to get there I tried to just 'live' with it and get to work on my project.
A few hours later Dana (before she was Mrs. Bowers) came up to me looking worried..."Adrienne, are you ok'? I looked up and she said I didn't look so good. "You better go outside and get some air" LOL Yeah...after that experience I started to consider if going to meets where smoking was allowed inside was worth the misery (some of us really do get sick)
Some meets I have skipped for that very reason.
The problem, as I see it, is that when you smoke (and you have a right to enjoy it)there is no way to keep it to yourself, I, as a non smoker, if I am sharing your airspace, am not in control of what I breath into my lungs and am forced to smoke along with you.
I don't see that as being fair.
It's not the smoker I object to, what I object to is having to endure something that ruins my enjoyment of an event or activity that I have paid a lot of money to attend.
I apprieciate those hosts that make it a rule that all smoking is to be done outside of the common indoor space used for that event. This is only common curtesy.
I've also been to meets where, although signs where posted that said 'no smoking' ,an attendee will walk around puffing a cigar as if the rules weren't for him (comeon, CIGAR smoke IS just gross!!!) and the host never said a word to him.
I would have left if I had a way to do so.
OK....now, you smokers don't jump on me, but is it asking too much to ask you to step outside for a few minutes for the consideration of your fellow heads?
A:)
Posted by Bill Cosharek (Member # 1274) on :
So Chris. Might I assume you are NOT related to Nosmo King from the Paul Shannon Adventuretime show? Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Joey,
I checked, and you're right! Nail biting is, according to Freud, part of an oral fixation. So is sarcasm according to Freud...so welcome to the club!
Here is the complete list of symptoms of oral fixation according to Freud (assuming that you believe everything this goofball espoused.)
Symptoms of Oral Fixation:
Smoking Constant chewing on gum, pens, pencils, etc. Nail biting Overeating Drinking Sarcasm ("the biting personality") and verbal hostility
I also checked his theories on anal fixations...and luckily I don't have any of those symptoms...hehehehe.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
OP - glad to see we found some common ground here...and glad to hear you're feeling healthy as a result of kicking the habit. Keep up the good work...live long and prosper. Posted by Kurt Gaber (Member # 256) on :
Wow, lots of interesting points of view about the smoking. I'm glad it was brought up. Alot of people would probably be nervous about putting any kind of negative spin on the meet, especially on an open forum like Letterville, but at least by several of us are reading about it and maybe raising some eyebrows a little bit, more of the smokers will be aware of our concerns and may show some more consideration at future meets.
Adrienne's comments were painfully obvious about her situation with a past meet and smokers, and I hope it hits home with some of the smokers. I'm glad to see that some of you even mentioned that you cut short meets or didn't attend at all because of the smoke. Thanks for your honesty. We hosted the Brush Bash in '02, and I DID NOT verbally indicate that people should smoke outside, but I had enough NO SMOKING signs in the office and shop and felt that people did a pretty good job in respecting other people's air!
I worked at a large shop 15 years ago and was stuck in separate "lettering" area and office with the shop foreman who was a smoker. It was really frustrating because if I spoke up about it, he would defend the "smoker's rights" and it was useless to even bring it up. Finally I got a little brainstorm and sketched out a unique invention on some poster paper. It was a mock-up of a large exhaust fan complete with propellors, controls and a brand name called something like the "Smoke-Evac 1000". It was there for a few days as a joke, but the owner of the business took it seriously and installed a real fan to suck out the smoke! It was a compromise, but at least it helped. I worked there for 2 and a half years and the foreman quit there a handful of years later due to job stress. We still keep in touch and I know that he also quit smoking about 5 or 6 years ago...finally!
I had my 8 year old son with me at the Muster and he has asthma, but we were aware that there would be smokers, because there usually are, so it didn't deter us from attending the meet. However, if more consideration for non-smokers was given, it would certainly make for a better experience for all of us.
I like the old adage that goes something like this...
You like smoking... I don't. I like BEER... mind if I p*ss on your head?
That's a good one!
My dad smoked for 42 years until he had a heart attack. Since then, he quit, but he has also had open heart surgery, a stroke, non-Hodgkins lymphoma, prostate cancer, and most recently has been diagnosed with Parkinson's Disease. He is 74 years old but has been suffering the last 15 years from smoking related illnesses, in my opinion. Is it really worth it? I guess it's up to each individual, but I'll be smoke free the rest of my days. (except for second hand smoke)
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
ok....most of us here seem to abor smoking. this is 2004. now lets time travel bck to 1950's. all of us "old smokers" were children of ages between 3-16. now WW 2 had just finished, korean conflict had just started. uncle sam was one of the biggest supports of cigarettes. remember CAMELS,LUCKY STRIKE, CHESTERFEILDS, and WINGS. if you smoked these where the "top of the line"....because all the famous people smoked em. JOHN WAYNE, EARL FLYNN, ARTHER GODFRY, JACKIE GLESON,JAMES DEAN, ROBERT MITCHEM. and all the troops in WW 2 and KOREA were provided with all the smokes they needed. then tv started to saturate the population and the cigarette companys became one of the best advertisers. so it became "the thing that was cool to do", like todays low carb diet. all the medical and scientific info was not availalabe to the general public and most didnt care, it was a happy time most of those years. then the 60's came along, with pot and self discovery, searching the inner self so to speak. well if you smoked pot, you had ta smoke cigarettes, good cover for doin the illegal stuff. by this time most of us where so intreched into the habit......we just accepted the people around us dieing. and we all knew in our hearts this stuff was to blame but hey you gota die some way. the 70's bought a lot of our famous people dien from smokin..and then the light went on to no smokin is a good thing and started to be more acceptable as the norm. the 80's brought in AIDS now sex was also bad for ya, and seeing all these people who were infected and diein at early ages tended to open our eyes more and more as to the fraility of this life we live(and most of us had reached that magic number of 30, and was on a down hill run heheheheh)so everbody decides that livin a little past 30 would be a nice thing. some got it quicker then the rest of us, and some just cant stop it. so that it will still tend to be a sticking point of our culture. just like the fight between pot being legal and outlawing alcohol or legalizing pot so its no different then booze or cigarettes. but we only can do what we convince our self to do at any given time. why some people are over the top religious and others commit crimes against children, and others of our species. why its ok to kill animals for sport, and its ok to kill others if you are in uniform, but dont kill a chicken or a goat for sacrifice to the gods, then you are totally wrong....its all in your perception of how you see your world.
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
Hey OP,
Just "got" me a possum. The sucker was trying to raid the dogs dish. I bought the dog food, it was my property, so I consider that stealing...and you know what happens to thieves in the midwest?! Hang 'em high baby!
The dog was going wild and I didn't relish the idea of a possible scrape with rabbies. Some states consider them fine dining, but we consider them a high grade rat.
Posted by John Deaton III (Member # 925) on :
My mother and father were both heavy smokers for many years. My sister and I aren't. I tried em one time when I was younger, but the appeal just wasnt there. I was a musician for many years and played alot of bars, so I inhaled my fair share of cig smoke. No doubt smoking is a bad habit, but its a hard habit to break. I know this from my parents trying to quit. Dad did after 30 plus years and my mother did after it affected her health greatly. I aint gonna sit here and tell the smokers here that its bad for them, heck they know that. Most of em would probably be more than happy to give it up if it was that easy. I always eat in the non smoking sections of restaurants, and dont allow it in my shop. Im not crappy about it, I just tell them to please put the cigarette out. To tell you the truth, the thing I cant handle is snuff dipper. Every mothers son here dips that crap, and leaves their spit cups all over the dang place. Brother, now there is a nasty habit. Bit ol fat lip full of snuff, makes em talk funny as hell, and they spend all their time just spitting. Whats up with that? You can always tell one too. Got them little bits of stuff in their teeth. Looks like somebody flicked a toothbrush of gloss black at their teeth. shew! Posted by Randy Campbell (Member # 2675) on :
OP;thats like someone jumping to their death and you following-would you??? I smoked for 10 years and quit 23 years now because I wanted to not because someone told me to.
Posted by AdrienneMorgan (Member # 1046) on :
Not to mention lip and mouth cancer...and, sorry, I would NEVER kiss a boy that chewed!!!!EEEWWW!! LOL!!
I want to have a sign to post up when I'm painting outside...:
"If you smoke around the artist, I will assume you are on fire and take appropriate action"
I can't stand it when someone stands around watching me, smoking and then puts the ciggerette still smoking away in the can next to the door of a shop where I'm working to pick up when they come back out. I get off my ladder, give it a good soaking with my spray bottle and then go back to work....I love the look of confusion when they come back out and find thier soggy butt instead....lol...I'm mean!!
Sometimes I'll tell them to stay back at LEAST 30 feet, that's paint thinner in that spray bottle!!!
And what's with smokers trying to be 'curtious' by offering to turn an occelating fan on while you are visiting? Sure, so the smoke gets evenly distributed all over the house!!!
Next time someone asks you if you mind if they smoke, tell them, "Why no, mind if I FART"?!
OK, rant over....... smoke 'em if ya got 'em...just don't exhale!!
A:)
[ February 18, 2004, 06:47 PM: Message edited by: AdrienneMorgan ]
Posted by Myra Grozinger (Member # 327) on :
I just now found this post, I have not looked in here in a number of days, my life is complicated right now.
I am reeling from a diagnosis one month ago in my 50 yr old brother who lives here in town. He has lung cancer stage 4 which has spread to the brain,and he is a heavy smoker. I have another smoking brother who spits and coughs all morning and has shortness of breath and his skin is beginning to break open.
I smoked for more than 30 years, 2 packs on a GOOD day. Quitting was the hardest thing I've ever done. And one of my proudest achievements- which is about par on the scale of hard and proud.
When I smoked I was genuinely unaware of the pain I was to non-smokers. I smoked in my home and shop without ever thinking much about them. I thought if I waved my hand a little in front of my face, after throwing a cigarette into the bushes before ringing someone's doorbell, that they had no clue I smoked.
Now I can pass a house walking and can often tell if the inhabitants are smokers.
So I have come a long way to realize how much of a discomfort we smokers (if I had a cigarette I would be one again, because one is too many and a thousand are not enough) are to those that don't smoke, and I think it is a valuable thing to be discussed here in a frank manner.
My opinion now is that: the non smokers are to be respected first, because smokers are diminishing their comfort to varying degrees, sometimes, as we are reading here, in serious ways. Therefore, the non-smoker's good air has to be assured somehow. With that awareness, the new American Homeless, the Smokers, have to go to the porches, the basements, the front stoops, whatever Which holds true for gatherings that happen now, parties in homes, bars, restaurants, sign shops, every place.
I myself am different. I let smokers smoke in my house, because I don't know many any more, and I like to smell it. I now go weeks without smelling smoke, and it causes me no discomfort.
I live in Winston-Salem, home of RJReynolds, cigarette city USA. When I arrived here in the early sixties, the smell of tobacco, sweet and heavy hung all over downtown all day because the factories were in the heart of it. People who went on job interviews here got a Reynolds brand, whether they smoked it or not, and smoked during the interview. It was part of getting hired. We have come a long way baby, and it ain't about Virginia Slims no more.
Now to John's diatribe about the tobacco chews.
My story is that in the early 1970s someone had asked me to go with her to meet her shrink. I was this relatively young immigrant, had never ever even HEARD of chewing tobacco, and the man had a gold spittoon next to his chair. Every now and then this stream of dark juice was delivered into it from his sitting position, and I swear he never missed. I thought he had lung cancer and was being brave. I left the room and went to the bathroom and threw up.
----------------------------- Forgive me for just rambling. Smoking/ Non-smoking/ the horrible hazards of it - and my own experiences - just make it a hot issue for me, one where I simply have to say a thing or two, or three.....
Posted by Rick Sacks (Member # 379) on :
In California before they outlawed smoking in public places, they had smoking areas. Usually there was a back room in restaurants without windows for non smokers, and to get there travelling through the smoking area was the only way.
I enjoyed the comment that I once heard that a non smoking area in a restaurant was like a non peeing area in a pool.
Ever notice those rooms in airports where they get 30 people in there smoking together? Then they turn 'em loose.
I smoked for many years, and now I get near it and my breathing clogs up. Don't know if I'll ever get over the damage I did to myself.
I certainly appreciate the courtesy that some smokers display by their sensitivity to the needs of others.
Thank you for bringing this subject to the foreground.
Posted by Cam Bortz (Member # 55) on :
Ahh, smoking. Some do it cause they like it, most cause they have to....
I'm in total self-contradiction on the matter. For one, I hate cigarettes. Nasty little paper tubes full of chemicals and nickle-a-ton ditch weed designed as a perfect drug delivery system for the addicts.
But to me that's not tobacco, that's drug addiction. Most folks have seen me at meets with a cigar, which any more is my only habit involving combustibles. Now a good cigar, people, is a fine thing, and should NEVER be confused with those atrocious little corporate drug-delivery tax-producing coffin nails you buy in twenty-to-a-pack doses.
A good cigar is real tobacco, grown by people who know what they're doing and care about the results. They are made for taste and enjoyment, not mass consumption, and have about as much in common with cigarettes as Thunderbird has with Dom Perignon. I'm always amused by the nicotine addicts who actually complain about cigar smoke. Look. This is what TOBACCO smells like. Not formaldyhyde, ammonia, chlorine and animal waste, all components of what the cigarette industry laughingly calls "tobacco".
My cigar habit is lately about two or three a month - not what I'd call an addiction, or even frequent enough to be harmfull. As to smoking or non-smoking at an event, that's ultimately up to the host. I don't look at smoking as something I have to do to service an addiction, so it doesn't bother me if I can't do it. But I do love to fire one up when I'm relaxing with good friends over a drink, which generally happens at Letterhead meets, go figure. I always assume if it bothers someone they'll tell me; if someone is polite about it, so will I.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
hahahahahaha cam......you got your finger on the corperates,how they have fueled an addiction. i also feel this way about the alcohol industy. speakin of cigars....i grew up in an multi ethnic area of pa. and i have witnessed some of the nastest tobacco habits in the world. my parents owned a bar from 1956 till 78 when my mom died. our house was behind and above the bar. the smoking that went on there was so thick sometimes you almost couldnt see across the room. now most of patrons were old european guys, italian, polish, solvok, litiwainian, hungarian, russian. all had there own tobacco thing. most of the old guys either rolled, pipe, or chewed...this one tobacco we sold. 5 BROTHERS, fine cut...let me tell you this was the nastest smellin stuf when it burned. i cant even imagine chewing it. the old "dagos" smoked these little..looked like dried up dog turds...cigars called PARODI, PETRI,and DENOBLI...but boy...you was a he** of a man if you could stand smokin one of them. ontop of these nasty smells most of these old guys carried garlic in there pocket and ate it raw, drinkin beer and smokin all this stuff. needles to say...you olafactor sences got a workout. on sunday we cleaned the bar....and my job was to clean the SPITOONS...had 4 of em(they were required by the health dept if you ran a bar at that time)and i also had to polish them, they were solid brass. and then when i finished them i had to polish the brass footrail!!!!! and also wash all the ashtrays....boy was i a dummy. now the funny thing here is when i quit smokin, my wife still smoked. now i was getting to the point with my non-smoking and her still smokin that i was having a hard time kissing her(youve heard the saying your mouth smells like an ashtray) and i didnt want to fight with her about it. so in self defence, she askes me to stop and get her a pack of smokes on the way to freinds house....i did and i figured...well if shes gona smoke iam gona try a cigar....hehehehhe i did and bought a 5 pack PARODI'S.....i put it my mouth in the store, asked for matches....and walked out of the store. i got such a nicotine kick from just puttin the cigar in my mouth...i never lite em. for almost a year, i chewed these things....never lighting. then the wife quit smokin and after a couple weeks..she wouldnt KISS ME!!! she told me in no uncertain terms....one or the other gota go..me or the PARODI'S!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Posted by AdrienneMorgan (Member # 1046) on :
Fancy or not....it still smells like your smokin' a turd....
The reason I never speak up if someone is smoking a cigar at a social gathering, is that most (not you, Cam) cigar smokers are the most arrogant ppl I have ever met....to speak up and say that is offensive is only asking for trouble.
How would you respond, if at a Letterhead event, we were all sitting around having a chat, drink, whatever, and you were to light one up and I said " Could you please not smoke that right now"?
Most non-smokers just are afraid to speak up, I know I am, and then I sit silently, in misery.
Maybe it's time we do speak up to smokers and ask politely that you not smoke around us.
Will this only make you defensive? (This is not aimed at you, Cam, I'm just using you as an example.)
Just what is the best way to ask?
A:)
Posted by Todd Gill (Member # 2569) on :
One of the things that always bugged me the most about cigarette smoking (ers) is when they get ready to walk into a store or are driving down the road they think it's "ok" to throw their butts right on the ground.
To me, that's littering and I think it's rude as well. I bet the people who throw their butts on the parking lots, in front of store entrances, etc would not like it if someone driving down the road finishing up their McDonald's lunch heaved their trash and wrappers into their front lawn as they drove by?!
It's a habit that for some reason is overlooked. A cop would pull you over if you threw a McDonald's back out your window on the highway and ticket you, but they wouldn't think twice if you through a still burning cigarette butt out the window with sparks flying underneath passing cars that are leaking all kinds of flamable liquids. Go figure.
Posted by Donna in BC (Member # 130) on :
I think the natural assumption should be, assume it WILL bother someone if you're smoking anything that leaks smoke into an enclosed indoor area. Perhaps saying, "Mind if I smoke?" would be more appropriate?
Posted by AdrienneMorgan (Member # 1046) on :
Steve Martin once said when someone asks you that, tell them "Why, no, mind if I FART"?!
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
4:14 AM???? you up smokin a cigarette?????? hehehehehehehe
Posted by AdrienneMorgan (Member # 1046) on :
It was only 1:30 am when I posted......!!!
Posted by Mike Contreras (Member # 1571) on :
Soon enough Mr Pickett.. It will be your way.. No Smoking, No Guns, No Rights... You will miss the Second hand " CIGARETTE" smoke. But that's another Post...
I am a Part time Smoker.. I wouldn't mind no smoking at the Meets. Inside.. Good Idea...
What about Swearing... I heard some Bad Words at the Muster... Got worse after the Beer & Cigarettes busted out...
I want a "Swear Free Zone" at The Muster. Mike do you think you could help me on this one... It would have to be a White Room... Non Smoking of course... Yeh... That'd be nice...
Quiet Music playing.. Maybee some Yanni. Cocktails being served. ( non-alcholic of course) Vinyl & Hand Painters sharing Tips & Tricks... Oh what a meet!!
I have A DREAM.... that one Day on the Green Hills of Mazeppa..... Sons of Former Sign Painters..... ANd sons of Former Computer Generated Sign Artists, Will be able to sit down at the Drawing Board of Life...
Signs At Last..... Signs At Last.... Thank God Almighty... We makin Signs at Last...
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
good post up till the last one....oh well gota be one of these when things were going good.
Posted by Jeff Spradling (Member # 1615) on :
Hey Joe...there are several forms of speed-bumps in life...they might slow ya down for a bit...but they can't stop ya
Jeff
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
you right jeff....back on the farm they came in the form of COW PIES... and you learned quick, to step over or go around em, but always be aware of where your steppin!!!!
[ February 24, 2004, 01:44 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
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