We cut reflective letters for the local fire department. They put them on and did a pretty good job except for two panel. These panels were repainted at a body shop, don't know what type of paint. They said the letters went on fine and then the second day they litterly were covered in bubbles. What do you think? Was this some kind of reaction to the paint or maybe rubbing compound? Let me know what you think. Thanks
Posted by Bill Cosharek (Member # 1274) on :
This sounds like a common problem called "outgassing". A search will give you much info to help. Good luck.
Posted by Harris Kohen (Member # 2139) on :
how long before they installed the letter was it painted. even the best paint needs at least 24 hours time for outgassing.
Posted by Tony Vickio (Member # 2265) on :
Bill & Harris are right on! I do a lot of Emergemcy vehicles and when a repair job comes in from a body shop, my rule is "three days" after paint is applied! Never had a problem since. Although, I did learn this by redoing the whole side of a Sheriff car when I applied the vinyl the day after it was painted!!
Posted by Sheila Ferrell (Member # 3741) on :
I've seen this a time or two as well, but can't remember all the details of the situations . . . seem like I recall that after the vinyl is in the sun for a few hot days the vinyl settles back smooth... But for future reference, another question: Would this problem still occur even if the vehicle's new finish has been "baked" in a dryer room?
Posted by Jeff Briggs (Member # 2870) on :
It's definately the people that cut the vinyl - has to be. If your suggesting that the firefighters are in any way at fault then your unpatriotic - might be all of that underground fire smog in North Jeff. Co.! ONLY KIDDING! Hello Tom and Kathy - you may have forgotten me.............. short, fat and handsome.............the guy that came in and demanded the impossible tasks, incredibly fast for very little money. That may describe alot of your customers. I live a mile from the coolest sign people in the land and haven't been there in ages - my bad - I even have a bizzare gift I made for you guys ages ago. By the way, don't I still have a bill going down there?? What's the interest rate on that sucker? Miss dealing with you guys - talk to you soon. Jeff Briggs
Posted by Andrew Skic (Member # 3875) on :
I will agree with all on the outgassing. The paint was probably not completely dry and thus after application of the vinyl, the solvents trying to get out were trapped causing the bubbling condition. Alot also depends on the type of paint and drying conditions. An enamel based paint and some lacquers take longer to dry throughout so a definite couple of days is in order. A urethane enamel or clearcoat that has been activated or catylized with a hardener and kept warm (above 50-55 degrees) for about 24 hours can usually have vinyl applied after that period of time. Sometimes take an area that is not so noticable and push on it with your finger with reasonable pressure, If you leave a fingerprint texture in the paint, it still maybe soft and thus not dry enough throughout to not still trap the solvents. If you have to rush it a bit, put it near or in front of the heater for a while,use a heat lamp, or put it out in the sun for a while as this may help speed the drying process. A urethane does stop its drying/curing below 50-55 degrees so again if you get the job in the shop that evening and plan on doing it the next day but you leave for the night and turn the heat down to 50 degrees, well, you get the idea. Some repair shops will have a spray booth that also bakes or helps cure the paint.(Sheila's question) If you know that for a fact, or the customer says that they are going to have this or that fixed or painted and then they'll come and get it lettered, tell them to have the shop bake the panel or repair a little longer as you want it dry for the install. Usually they will accomodate you. About 45 minutes to an hour at about 140 to 160 degrees will dry most urethanes to the extent that after cool down you can work with them. Always try and test it with your finger again as it is always more difficult to redo a job on fresh paint. If your not comfy with the job surface after baking, wait the 24 hours. It should be fine. At my shop here we do mostly custom painting on vehicles, motorcycles, and have used these techniques or rules for years with great results. On alot of jobs we Edge print some custom prints and apply them over basecoat paints and clear them immediatly with excellent results. I hope this helps and if anyone has any "Automotive" type questions feel free to contact me and we'll be glad to help.
