Customer is asking about wrapping in white vinyl the sides of a box truck to keep from painting it.
When we painted flames on our company trailor, we first tried wrapping it in black vinyl. OMG!! It would not go on without wrinkling. I've never been so frustrated.
I can wrap a car -- no problem especially since you stretch the vinyl, but something about the type of surface on these trailors and trying to make perfectly flat straight sections of vinyl -- I just don't know the proper technique.
Any tips?
Posted by Si Allen (Member # 420) on :
Duhhhhh....wouldn't it be easier, cheaper and look better to grab a roller and give it a coat of paint?
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
iam with si....and i also dont see the advantage of doing vinyl when its easier and less expensive to paint!!! enlighten me if iam out of touch.....
Posted by Checkers (Member # 63) on :
Hiya Penny, Ya didn't mention anything about rivets. They can be a pain, but, with the right technique, I find them to be easier than vehicle wraps. Anyway, Mark Matyjakowski put a great page together for applying vinyl on large trailers. Here's the link... http://www.slamgraphics.com/tips/rivetron/aapage1.htm
Havin' fun,
Checkers
Posted by Penny Baugh (Member # 3275) on :
What? Are you saying I should roll on paint on the side of this guy's truck? Like a roller and 1-Shot? Can I do that?
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
YIKES!!!
Give him a couple of 4 inch foam brushes, a can of equipment enamel, suggest he mask off the door handles and politely ask him to forget he ever met you.
I'll bet money he would come back griping when the vinyl came up on the corners looking for it to be covered under a warranty...sheesh.
Rapid
[ January 16, 2004, 02:01 PM: Message edited by: Ray Rheaume ]
Posted by John Arnott (Member # 215) on :
Simply scuff it and clean it with tsp, then paint it with a foam roller. Treat is just like a large old metal sign. I would use a good enamel not 1-shot. These old trucks still have a lot of advertizing value to them even if they don't run!
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
i gota say this...IF YOU DONT KNOW WHAT YOUR DOIN.....d o n ' t ! ! ! !! you need to get wit someone who has been in this business ...to teach you most of the things we all do.
Posted by Penny Baugh (Member # 3275) on :
Joe,
Duhhhh, this board is getting with someone who has been in this business to teach me what you all do. Not knowing what I was doing hasn't stopped me from learning yet, and it's not going to.
When I was 14 I begged the local sign "artist" to let me work for him. I even offered to work for free. No way. My work looks ten times better than his and he's been doing this for over 50 years. I thank God, I didn't apprentice under him. Plus, he doesn't help me now, all he does it bad-mouth people with computers.
When I was 30, I asked the local vinyl jockey 3 different times to let me work for him. No interest. When I was 40, I decided that I'd follow my dream. I love this business and would give anything if I could apprentice for someone, but I don't have that option so I'm stuck with you. So get over yourself and help me.
Now, I'm going to do this guy's truck one way or the other and when I get through with it, it'll look fantastic. It'd be nice if you'd help me figure out what my options are.
Posted by Steve Racz (Member # 4376) on :
Penny, As a newbie i'm with you on this one and appreciate your guts. I just started reading this board about a week ago and it is a wealth of info. Plus, although i've been doing carved signs as a hobby for 13 years i only went full time in june and i only know a very small niche of the business (e.g. i've done ONE vehicle lettering job - my own). Don't stop asking questions! Someday we'll be the experts... Posted by Frank Magoo (Member # 3950) on :
Well put Penny, got to love your "tude". Si and OP are right, of course, and to follow their lead would also be my suggestion. I am also one of those old guys, but more trained in the area your enquiry covers than they are, so, I'll attempt to answer your query. I wouldn't use one-shot, it's more than it can handle, but it would work, as it's an exterior enamel. The best I can think of, is, an exterior latex, the trailer builders use, you can use an air-less to apply it and the pre-prep is less.(a good washing w/hi-pressure cleaner) In your case, needing white, the product comes in white, just buy and spray, if it screws up, stop, water clean boo-boo, and get back to painting, easy, quick, look lasting,weather-proof. done deal.... ps: don't think poorly of Si & OP, they're really OLD and are jus that way.....heh-heh.
Posted by Sonny Franks (Member # 588) on :
Penny, You didn't mention the condition of the truck, or a relative budget, but you may want to consider upselling to a full vehicle wrap. You design it on the computer and have it printed digitally. The adhesive is much more forgiving than regular vinyl and can be repositioned. It conforms well to rivets with a heat gun and you're able to work in vector and/or raster format. I'll be glad to put you onto someone who sells wholesale to the trade.
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
Penny, I respect a good dose of attitude too, when called for, (like it clearly was in this case)but am I reading right that this is not a sign, or even prior to a sign... just a job whitening up this guys truck?
I love a good paid excuse to get some more tools & skills to widen my horizons within the sign industry... but unless I had NO WORK to do, I wouldn't want to buy an airless sprayer some new breed of paint & then roll the dice with the learning-curve gods on something so unlikely to become a recurring money maker in my business.
If it is a truck graphics, & the new coat of white is just part of that job... I would go with Sonny's suggestion.
Posted by Frank Magoo (Member # 3950) on :
Penny, re-reading your post, I realized that your customer wanted vinyl going in, so much for paint, that ends my involvement, I'm not a vinyl jockey, though I do some for special projects or customers. In your research though, you will find that the cost of one-shot or better is more than the combined costs of using exterior-latex. This new breed paint has been used extensively in the trailer builders world for many years now and has proven to hold up and provide a smooth surface for possible art-work(lettering). Most paint stores will include rental of airless/pressure washer in your paint purchase. Besides, here in Vegas, a good roll of the dice is the name of the game !!!
Posted by Doug Allan (Member # 2247) on :
quote:...here in Vegas, a good roll of the dice is the name of the game !!
good answer Frank!
My "new breed" comment refers to "new" to me, or to Penny (if it is)& factors in only as it relates to possibly raising the "stakes" for that roll of the dice, by adding one more unknown (to me) factor. Coming from a paint guy, I have no doubt that it is good advice.
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
penny what you really need to do since you cant do this....is tell the guy to take it to a body shop, get the damn thing painted PROPERLY with AUTOMOTIVE PAINT!!!! i dont care if its MACCO or PEACHES... since you cant paint this PROPERLY...DONT do a half a**ed job. i can paint with automotive paint,(5-6 yrs as body and fender man) one of those add on thing you need to learn and it cant be taught over the internet. you roll latex on that truck, and ill give it 6-12 months and it will peel!!! you roll one shot....and it will look like crap!!! if you doint clean it properly before you paint..paint wont stick! like i said 1st off IF YOU CANT DO SOMETHING...DONT let him get it painted so you can be sure that when you stick your vinyl on that fresh paint..you dont take paint off with the transfer tape!! now you can learn a lot here and from other people telling you, but aint nothing like going to a body shop, spending a couple months(for free, no pay) to learn how to do that...RIGHT!!! this is what iam talkin bout....and if you dont like what iam sayin....go for it.....but dont cry about what a mess it turned into.....when done WRONG!
[ January 17, 2004, 02:08 AM: Message edited by: old paint ]
Posted by Ray Rheaume (Member # 3794) on :
Penny,
What I read in you original post that struck me is that you have a customer who has made a couple of assumptions... They think the vinyl will be cheaper. They think the vinyl be easier to do than paint. Neither is correct.
I know you want to do a good job on this one, but as the others here have mentioned, rolling on paint would be a better idea. You can even roll some of the equipment enamels which are designed for vehicle use. They are a less expensive than typical automotive paints and more durable that vinyl. The downside is that they take longer to dry and are not as hard as auto finishes.
The condition of the panels is very important. If they have begun to rust or pit along the rivets or seams, it now involves sanding and cleaning for the paint (or vinyl)to adhere. If not done right, it probably won't last very long.
IMHO, the next step you need to take is to ask the customer what he is expecting from you.
If it's something that in the long run would be better in the hands of a body shop, deciding not to do it might be a better option. My gut feeling is that the customer is assuming that doing it in vinyl will be a quick fix and cheaper than hiring a body shop to do it, but from my own experience, you could get in over your head with problems that an experienced body person is better equipped to deal with, and the time involved from learning how to get around these problems usually end up being lost income.
Joe does make a really good point about spending time with automotive painters. If you want to take you're business to the auto finish level, spending time with an experienced body man can be invaluable. It's a very different set of rules from sign painting and vinyl application.
Hope this helps... Rapid
Posted by Rich Stebbing (Member # 368) on :
Were you using the 3M comply 180? I have heard that that is the best. 3M does offer classes as well. I have a friend who is thinking of going and getting "certified" by 3M to do this work. I think if. I were you I would try and contact 3M or other vinyl manufaturer to address your problems. It would be nice to have someone who does this work on a regular basis to offer "specific" input here. Until then , good luck!
Posted by Penny Baugh (Member # 3275) on :
Let's see...
you old timers hop up and suggest I paint the thing and then you start lecturing me about being stupid enough to paint it when I don't know what I'm doing.
I never said I wanted to paint it to start with! I wouldn't paint it unless I wanted to be the laughing stock of the county. My friend over here is a body man and he's snickering under his breath about you guys with a roller, so I just wondered if you actually did such. It's interesting to know that some people are so dang good that they can paint vehicles with rollers. Seems like you were just looking for place to crow about it. So hat's off to you, you're more talented body men than any I've ever seen or heard tale of.
Anyhow, enough of that....
To clarify, here's what I want to know:
1. Should I wrap it -- Ray said forget it, it's not cheaper or better than paint. Thank you, Ray. I'll tell the guy to have it painted, then I'll do his graphics. Unless someone else has another opinion on wrapping it, that's my conclusion.
2. If I did wrap it, is there a good technique -- Checkers gave me a link to Mark's step by step, thanks; and Sonny has the hook-up for full wraps -- I need that info.
Posted by Frank Magoo (Member # 3950) on :
Someone needs to take a chill pill.
Posted by Bob Peach (Member # 2620) on :
Just my 2 cents worth,Si Has forgotten more about signs than you and I will ever know and I`ve run a sign company for 25 years. I have 3 suggestions for you, Penny Take a class on manners, take a design course , go work in a sign shop for a couple years and learn the basics. Have a nice day,
Posted by old paint (Member # 549) on :
lets see bob, si, me and frank......with an accumulation of 100 years experiance....dont know nothin........ok......
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