posted
Actually, I wanted to post a comment on a the topic: "Not really in the Letterheads Spirit", started by Henry Barker on April 6th, 2009, but the topic was locked.
I was a contributing artist to LHF, until I was deemed "unhappy" by Chuck, and since he didn't "like my tone" on a phone call HE made to me, he deleted me and my fonts right off his site. I wrote him a letter to see if I could get him to reconsider. I received a very rude reply back, with his closing statement of, "Lay off the pot Larry, it's making you paranoid." Shows you how much he knows, I don't smoke pot. He's just a diminutive little weasel, that has no clue on how to discuss any issue with anyone. It's his way, or the highway. What a total ass! Please, don't buy anything from that jerk!
Sincerely, Larry White
[ December 20, 2009, 12:50 AM: Message edited by: Larry White ]
-------------------- Larry White Town of Machine www.walljewelry.com whitel@iname.com Posts: 36 | From: Machine | Registered: Jul 2003
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"...there are no limits when you aim for perfection..." Jonathan Livingston Seagull Posts: 7014 | From: Highgrove via Toowoomba, Queensland, Australia | Registered: Dec 2002
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posted
Chuck has a knack for winning enemies and influencing people. I wonder if he read a book for that talent, or if he just skipped reading the one that Carnegie wrote.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5273 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Hey, Larry- are you free then to sell your own fonts? If so, where?
-------------------- Catharine C. Kennedy CCK Graphics 1511 Route 28 Chatham Center, NY 12184 cck1620@taconic.net "Look at me, Look at me, Look at me now! I't's fun to have fun, But you have to know how!" Posts: 2173 | From: downtown Chatham Center, NY | Registered: Feb 2004
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posted
Myfonts is the best site on the web to sell fonts. Research shows they are the best thing going when it comes sales.
But you have to get yer fonts noticed, and that takes awhile. I recommend free "limited character" downloads of your fonts at Dafont.com and fontspace.com.
It is hard to go out on your own as an unknown and sales can sometimes be dismal and disturbing, but it can be done.
-------------------- Michael Gene Adkins The Fontry 1576 S Hwy 59 Watts OK 74964 Posts: 845 | From: Watts, OK USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
Thanks for the comments. I will investigate those other avenues to publish my stuff. This whole thing caught me way off guard, came out of nowhere. I'll get over it...and when I do, I'll be glad I don't have to deal with the likes of Chucky.
Just might make some sense to move on....
Have a wonderful Holiday! -Larry
-------------------- Larry White Town of Machine www.walljewelry.com whitel@iname.com Posts: 36 | From: Machine | Registered: Jul 2003
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Clearly this gets very personal for me. I'd bend over backwards to sell a font in this environment. I've even made deals over the phone and over the net when people really want my stuff but there is some issue at hand.
I give away thousands of "limited version" fonts a month in the hopes of just selling a few. And it works. Sadly, I'm not in a position to sell other peoples fonts, and one of the many reasons is that I don't want them upset with me when their font does poorly and just doesn't sell. It's something I can't control.
Still, I have promoted others in the past, tried to help them out where I can (sometimes successfully, other times not very successful at all as no one can predict the market).
If there is any way I can help you out, let me know. I have considered a "FRIENDS OF THE FONTRY" page on my site where I can promote and aim visitors to other font designers out there who may not have the venue or visibility they need to make their products known.
Just a thought. Opinions??? There have been enough emails lately from fellow font designers to probably warrant doing this.
-------------------- Michael Gene Adkins The Fontry 1576 S Hwy 59 Watts OK 74964 Posts: 845 | From: Watts, OK USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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I have your fonts. I use them all the time. I took advantage of some offer a while ago and got a whole load of them.
I think it would be a great idea to have other ways to get some contact with good font makers.
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5273 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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posted
Mike, Why Couldn't a Person (You since you have the outlet already setup)Put together a Font section (Lack of a limited vocabulary on my part) A flea Market/Co-Op for the font designers. With Paypal tools it is very easy to track the sales of a specific item and you take a small percentage 20%-30% or so. To cover costs and a small profit.(I know, A real small profit.) The designer can register with you on the web or phone. It's up to the designer to market, Or you can all pull your resources to Advertise.Together. I have seen it happen around here locally with artists and it seems to work very well. Even with all the Artistic Egos..
Just a thought.. I am web design challenged so If its to much work for something like that then Sorry for the idea.
posted
I think it's time some of these font designers might want to consider cutting ties with Letterhead Fonts and hook up with the Fontry. I feel Mike has a better marketing plan and definitely better customer service.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
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posted
I would go out of my way to buy fonts from the Fontry if that would ever happen.... as it is now, (and I've felt this way for a long time) I would turn down a job before I'd purchase a font at Letterhead Fonts.
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
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well thanx for the encouragement, youse guys ... I've no desire to actually get a cut of other people's font profits, but I've toyed with the idea of a single site/page that displays everyone's wares and then directs them to the most logical place to make the purchase: myfonts.com. Overall, you just can't beat what they have to offer in the way of service (they unfortunately do take a 50% cut--dangit!!!)
I too am too web-challenged to do it any other way, and too time-challenged to maintain the site even if I tried.
still, it's always great to hear everyone's ideas. anymore opinions??? opinions from those not so web-challenged??? Dan Antonelli--are you listening??? Russ??? hahaha!!!
-------------------- Michael Gene Adkins The Fontry 1576 S Hwy 59 Watts OK 74964 Posts: 845 | From: Watts, OK USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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Michael, I need to give you another call and get fired up about doing fonts again. I'd like to get at least one on the market so I can cross it off the bucket list.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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Larry, I'm stunned... I've followed your posts and the glass projects you have put on Mike Jackson's forum, and just recently bought United Cigar from LHF - the capitals are some of the best decorative caps I've ever seen. While I obviously can't know all that went on between you and Chuck, I've been hearing these strange stories of erratic behavior, and it makes me shake my head...
I've never met Chuck, but I know and am friends with a number of the designers who sell on his site. I strongly support seeing them being compensated for their efforts, and I'm a total hawk on intellectual property rights - and I know first hand how an awful lot of sign makers and other so-called "professionals", for all the high rhetoric and complaining about design theft, will help themselves to whatever they can get away with. In that light, I have some sense of the source of Chuck's vehemence about piracy, though I do wonder if his efforts have any real effect, or just alienate his customers.
Reading the comments on the Techdirt site were very enlightening and in some cases, disturbing. My fondest wish is that you find an outlet for your work that allows you to put it out there, and still get some compensation for the effort you've pu into it.
-------------------- "A wise man concerns himself with the truth, not with what people believe." - Aristotle
Cam Bortz Finest Kind Signs Pondside Iron works 256 S. Broad St. Pawcatuck, Ct. 06379 "Award winning Signs since 1988" Posts: 3051 | From: Pawcatuck,Connecticut USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
I have enjoyed reading everyone's comments. This whole turn of events seems pretty rediculous to me, and very unprofessional on LHF. It's definately not how I run my business.
Funny, I had received a memo from LHF about a month ago, stating how LHF was going to be exercising various avenues to increase sales for their contributing artists.
One of my life credos is, "Do what you say you're going to do." Obviously, Chuck hasn't heard this one, and has proven he'll say one thing and do another. I don't think this turn of events is going to help his sales.
I think his 20 years of uninterupted computing, has sucked all his human relationship skills....if he had any to begin with.
-Larry
[ December 21, 2009, 10:52 AM: Message edited by: Larry White ]
-------------------- Larry White Town of Machine www.walljewelry.com whitel@iname.com Posts: 36 | From: Machine | Registered: Jul 2003
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I have solved the piracy issue by just giving away "limited" versions of just about all my fonts, i.e., keyboard accessible characters only--nothing in the extended range. Another strategy is to give away one "unlimited" font from a font pak or family. This places my work in the public's hands for them to use and review, and if they are sincerely interested in making a purchase, they will eventually buy something. Call me crazy, but it eventually translates into sales.
Besides: Piracy is the sincerest form of flattery.
Russ, I don't know what you're waiting on. Let's get 'em ALL on the market!!!
-------------------- Michael Gene Adkins The Fontry 1576 S Hwy 59 Watts OK 74964 Posts: 845 | From: Watts, OK USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
I had been talking to Chuck about putting one of my fonts on the LHF site. He was hard to reach in the first place, but we got the conversation started.
I was doing the editing with my own software - which was the same as his - and I would ask him questions as I progressed. There are so many things to consider, and I was trying to do everything right.
There wasn't a lot of work on his part, but apparently he got tired of helping me. One day I got an email from him, which stated that he had decided to stop taking outside submissions. He had deleted all of my files from his computer.
Without any explanation of what I had done to offend him, he cut off the conversation. I was very disappointed because I felt we were really close to the finish.
So, it is no surprise to me that he isn't a great communicator. If something bothers him, he won't give any reasons. He just slams the door.
Edited to say: I have probably put myself on some sort of black list for having said this. LOL
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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Larry - didn't you have a contract with Letterhead Fonts? Seems crazy to me that he could just 'cut you off' when you had developed a font to sell and established on his site.
That seems like very eccentric, odd behavior to me.
Yeah, I would agree that disgruntled font designers might want to investigate alternative sites for selling their product... maybe DNA fonts, or Sudtipos in addition to the other suggested sites?
I haven't seen anything interesting (to me) on DNA's site in quite a while... maybe give them a shout...they could use some professional grade new stuff.
My mind wanders. And that's not a good thing, 'cause it's too small to be out there alone. Posts: 3129 | From: Tooele, UT | Registered: Mar 2005
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quote: self-righteous crusade alienates those who would be friends, the long-term effects can't be good.
Motivated by what?
Is he suffering from something that is altering his perceptions?
-------------------- Leaper of Tall buildings.. If you find my posts divisive or otherwise snarky please ignore them. If you do not know how then PM me about it and I will demonstrate. Posts: 5273 | From: Im a nowhere man | Registered: Jul 2001
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quote:Originally posted by Curtis hammond: Motivated by what?
Is he suffering from something that is altering his perceptions?
One does have to wonder. Based on what I've read here and elsewhere and my own personal experiences with someone else who exhibited similar behavior, I wouldn't be surprised if a bi-polar disorder was involved. Please understand that I'm not trying to be a "Dr. Phil". I just know that from personal experiences that sometime there is no motivation.
posted
I'm no psychologist but, I have lived awhile. Sometimes people go through serious personal, family problems or tragedies in their life, and this can cause all kinds of mood swings. Maybe he is having a tough time right now.
I bought some LHF's a few months ago and was quite happy with the service.
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
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Man's word is a valuable thing. Don't wanna lose it over lack of contact or communication.
I always thought the truth was easier, tell a man how you feel.
Times change. Less social contact among men. 'Course, can't put much stock in a man who spends most of his time talkin' thru a keyboard. Talkin thru a gawddam keyboard.
More and more everyday, we need to see the paper... sign, sealed, signatures, everything, make sure it's all in order.
Most of the time, place ain't worth doin business with anyway. Heck of a way to run a business, really enhance your opportunities for success, truth be told.
Its a new kind of time we're in, but, the old rules still apply. You treat people the way you want to be treated.
So, when your business is startin to slide, people no longer dealin with you, best take stock in yourself.
-------------------- Tony Segale Segale Fine Art & Gold Leaf Sign Co Lodi, CA www.tonysegale.com
""and he took that golden hair and made a sweater for baby bear" Posts: 216 | From: Lodi,CA,USA | Registered: Feb 2000
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Glad I didn't get mixed up with Letterhead Fonts.
I, for one, am more than satisfied with The Fontry's helpfulness. I only have one font under my belt so far (Atkinson's Eccentric French!) so my experience (not to mention sales!) with The Fontry is limited. That said, I'm immensely proud of the result so far and hope someday to make the font into a whole family: condensed, italic, and yes, even text. Mike was most helpful; he definately helped me learn a bit about font making.
[ December 21, 2009, 01:00 PM: Message edited by: Frank Smith ]
-------------------- Frank Smith Frank Smith Signs Albany, NY www.franksmithsigns.com Posts: 807 | From: Albany, NY USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
It took me only one google search and 30 seconds to find this in reference to Letterhead fonts:
QUOTE>>> An interesting reaction to piracy by a font foundry: make the customer suffer
My biggest crime is not releasing enough new stuff for the sign guys ... I hope I don't have any critiques like this floating around the net!!!
I'm not going to provide the link ... that would be salt for the wound.
-------------------- Michael Gene Adkins The Fontry 1576 S Hwy 59 Watts OK 74964 Posts: 845 | From: Watts, OK USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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posted
The fact that they put the customer in a state of paranoia is suffering I guess. If the font designs weren't so darn good it wouldn't be worth the hassle. I wonder how the heck he thinks designers in big ad agencies and the big sign companies won't put the fonts on corporate file servers just because they say not to? When the artwork goes into different departments for production the fonts are usually required and need to be on a server. That's how it is in the real world. Converting to outlines or curves isn't practical in many situations. It might work for the small shops but not for the big ones.
My partner, James Stirling, recently had one of his fonts downloaded off of Myfonts with a 300-!!! user license-!!!
for some people, I guess, that would be a problem.
-------------------- Michael Gene Adkins The Fontry 1576 S Hwy 59 Watts OK 74964 Posts: 845 | From: Watts, OK USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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Wow! Do you know what the price was for the 300 user license?
That might be an option for Letterheadfonts when they're selling to publishers and agencies... although I'm lucky to get them to pay the regular price where I work.
posted
But is it the foundry's reaction to piracy that is causing the customer to suffer or is it the really the fault of the piracy?
Here's what I mean.....I own several software programs that require a working dongle - Omega, SignLab and Wasatch Softrip. Why do the companies require the dongle? Piracy. And if the dongle goes bad, how much suffering is going to result? If the company has great support, the suffering will hopefully be minimal. Of course, having great support often requires a lot of effort and planning which doesn't come with out its own set of expenses.
I own Estimate and FastFilms which do not require a dongle. But, I do have to get a new "key" from them if I decide to move the to a new computer. Support is often "9 to 5, Monday - Friday". What happens if the software company goes under?
I can't and won't fault any company from taking measures to protect themselves. The problem is when the software company isn't responsive to the needs of its clientele as expected.
Unfortunately, we all have to experience a little suffering thanks to piracy. One can only hope that the software companies can find ways to minimize it as much as possible and not exacerbate things. Keeping a cool head and not be vengeful is a first step. To do otherwise will only backfire.
posted
I can understand your point of view Bob, and anyone that knows me would probably say that it's a bit out of character for me. But, when he concluded his rant with the "pot smoking" comment, it got my dander up.
Seems there are a few people interested in this topic.
I'll go away soon enough.
-------------------- Larry White Town of Machine www.walljewelry.com whitel@iname.com Posts: 36 | From: Machine | Registered: Jul 2003
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posted
What kills more brain cells, marijuana or alcohol?
Marijuana acts as a similar neurotransmitter in the brain called anandamide, which is an endogenous cannabinoid. Anandamide receptors have been shown to be involved in the management of short term memory. Studies are under way to explore what role anandamide plays in human behavior, such as eating and sleep patterns, and the part it plays in pain relief. Alcohol is a GABA inhibiting drug along with partial NMDA antagonist properties and many more. The NMDA antagonist properties can be damaging to the brain and the chemicals that are oxidized afterwards(acetyldehyde) is toxic to the body which causes hangovers along with dehydration taking part in it. Marijuana is also known to grow new braincells in the hippocampus region.
Alcohol may be much more damaging to the brain, while cannabis has the exact opposite effect.
-------------------- HotLines Joey Madden - pinstriping since 1952 'Perfection, its what I look for and what I live for'
-------------------- Frank Smith Frank Smith Signs Albany, NY www.franksmithsigns.com Posts: 807 | From: Albany, NY USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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The price break is so pro-rated it's ridiculous. Still, it probably comes to around $270, but I didn't ask.
-------------------- Michael Gene Adkins The Fontry 1576 S Hwy 59 Watts OK 74964 Posts: 845 | From: Watts, OK USA | Registered: Jun 1999
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![[Smile]](smile.gif)
![[Bash]](graemlins/bash.gif)
![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif)
![[Mad]](mad.gif)
In that light, I have some sense of the source of Chuck's vehemence about piracy, though I do wonder if his efforts have any real effect, or just alienate his customers. 
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