posted
This has come up in discussion before...but I have been contemplating a name change for my 'sign biz'... Currently, it is Outside The Lines. Years ago, I thought it was 'catchy' because I thought it might allude to a more creative approach than the usual...but am thinking now that it is a little too vague and abstract.
A name like Impact Signs.... (as a quick thought) might say more than my current name.
My customers know who I am, and I don't think it would be too big a deal to switch names, create some new business cards and redistribute them to my rather small base.
Thoughts on this? I appreciate and will consider all angles of this topic...so let 'er rip.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
And by what you say doesn't sound like it will be a problem.
I will stick to "Mackinaw Art & Sign", Since my niece pointed out to me that it was "SAM" Backwards.
-------------------- Sam Staffan Mackinaw Art & Sign 721 S. Nokomis St. Mackinaw City, MI dstaffan@sbcglobal.net Posts: 1694 | From: Mackinaw City, MI | Registered: Mar 2004
| IP: Logged |
posted
Thanks Sam... not sure about using "Impact Signs" yet.... I'd have to research it and see if it's in use...
Anyone know generally what the laws are as far as using a particular name? If another shop has the same name within the state I live, but not in the city - does that make the name unusable?
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
In choosing a name I would consider something you can also use for your domain name - especially if you have a web site or are considering it. Our web address is an important part of our marketing and the names should tie together seamlessly.
Choosing a name which is currently not in use on the internet will be a much tougher job.
-grampa dan
-------------------- Dan Sawatzky Imagination Corporation Yarrow, British Columbia dan@imaginationcorporation.com http://www.imaginationcorporation.com
Being a grampa is one of the the most wonderful things in the world!!! Posts: 8738 | From: Yarrow, B.C. Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
The problem with "impact" in comparison to "outside the lines" is you go from alluding to more creative to a name that is so prevalent that it takes over 40 pages of google to sift through before it starts to drop off.
I would think of other words similar to that (or others) and go to thesaurus.com and see if there are words that stir some ideas that may be more creative.
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1538 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Off the Wall would be a good name. If anybody uses it please send me royalties.......Haven't googled it yet. Just trying to think outside the bun. If you play it backwards it spells llawehtffo which would ring a bell with dyslexics.
-------------------- Darcy Baker Darcy's Signs Eureka Springs. AR. Posts: 1169 | From: Eureka Springs, AR | Registered: Nov 2007
| IP: Logged |
REMEMBER - I'm NOT using IMPACT signs, as noted in my post it's an example of a quick thought, not a final name...I'm just trying to illustrate the contrast between using my current name to using something of a more descriptive nature...I hope that's clear.
When folks ask you, you can say " Just Google it!"
Ha!
-------------------- Brian Oliver Paxton Signs Fort Collins, CO paxton@peakpeak.com www.paxtonsignsofcolorado.com Posts: 237 | From: ft. collins, colorado,usa | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I started with Autographics... 16 years ago I changed it to Signgraphics or Sign Graphics......no big deal to any customers. Just do it.
-------------------- John Arnott El Cajon CA 619 596-9989 signgraphics1@aol.com http://www.signgraphics1.com Posts: 1443 | From: El Cajon CA usa | Registered: Dec 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Todd, maybe you could get a 'sign' company name, but also keep the Outside the Lines name as a separate 'Design' firm. That way, you wouldn't be CHANGING the name, but rather ADDING a specialized sign company...
You could then spin it in your advertising and get the benefits of starting a NEW company.... grand opening, going around telling everyone about it, press releases, etc.
Also, that gives you a way to get some value-added service by keeping the design separate from the actual sign making... anything other than basic layout you can then refer to 'Outside the Lines' and then push 'their' services for a logo design or even a total image package.
Get a Google Voice number to use for the company number... it's free and would ring to your current numbers.... it announces it's from Google Voice tho, so you would know to answer the phone "Impacted Signs" or whatever you go with...
Also, like Dan said, picking your name to match something is available in a .com is a good consideration. That actually had a pretty big bearing on our name.... I made a list of about 15 different possibilities and checked to see what domains would be available for them... one was available for Snappy Signs, so that's what I went with...
Speaking of Google.....
quote:Originally posted by Brian Oliver: Hey Todd,
Howsa 'bout "Google Signs"?
When folks ask you, you can say " Just Google it!"
Ha!
Good idea, but you'd probably be hearing from G00gle in about a week with threatening cease and desist letter... LOL...
How do I know? Having a couple projects in mind, a few years back I registered the names b4google.com, g00gled.com and nongoogle.com and they were sending me hate-mail within a couple weeks.....
Did I let them go, however? Ummmmm.. no... in the meantime I just forwarded them to a few sites..... I don't want to post a link, but if you like, type the 'nongoogle' link with the www and .com into your browser and see where it goes... hehehe...
(I'm actually not militant towards Google, I use Gmail and Voice and a bunch of other services... that was just done because of the nasty letter I received...)
/if I turn up dead one of these days //y'all will know who did it...
[ September 16, 2009, 04:49 PM: Message edited by: Jon Jantz ]
-------------------- Jon Jantz Snappysign.com jjantz21@gmail.com http://www.allcw.com Posts: 3395 | From: Atmore, AL | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
Todd, I had the same reaction as Dan when I read your first post.
I hate our company name. I didn't choose it. There is nothing "creative" about the name Creative Graphics. What kind of logo can you come up with that fits the 5 criteria of what makes up a good logo -- Simple, Memorable, Timeless, Versatile, Appropriate -- with that kind of name?
Personally, I'd recommend something unusual but easy to remember and visualize and have fun with.
posted
There's got to be info out there about company name change, when to do it, when to hold off. My thought is, if it's broke, fix it. It doesn't sound terribly broke, there are certainly worse, but there could be a negative feel with the "outside" part. Everybody wants to be "in". In marketing, you pitch the benefits of your product or service, so maybe the name could-should do the same? Profit signs, traffic-to-you, just to start a brainstorm thread. I'm also wondering about "signs"...is that kind of 1800's? Action words: boost, pump, rev. Or the heart and soul of creativity: Quintessential Creativity (gold leaf calligraphy on black background, you're welcome)
I'm mostly trying to provoke thought here..
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
If your clientelle already knows you, I think you should name the business after yourself. After 30 years, I believe in it more than ever. I also registered "Albany Sign Company" a long time ago, but never did much with it. I simply decided to develop a good reputation and stand by my work.
-------------------- Frank Smith Frank Smith Signs Albany, NY www.franksmithsigns.com Posts: 807 | From: Albany, NY USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
How bout "CASH Signs"? Then you could tell your customers to make the check out to "CASH".
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3813 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
| IP: Logged |
I also like his attitude toward Google. Not that I dislike them, I just don't like getting pushed around either.
Alicia, you crack me up. 8^)
[ September 16, 2009, 07:16 PM: Message edited by: Brian Oliver ]
-------------------- Brian Oliver Paxton Signs Fort Collins, CO paxton@peakpeak.com www.paxtonsignsofcolorado.com Posts: 237 | From: ft. collins, colorado,usa | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Keeping it simple creates more and better business. Todd Gil SIGNS Makes the best sense to me. When someone writes a check for goods received, it has your name on it and makes for easier tracking at the bank. When your invoice has your name on it, that makes it easier for a customer to find you in their files when they need another sign. You are thought of faster and easier when your customers tell others about your shop. It's your name...! That Sells. When the write your name, they see your dumb Ol' face...
Jack
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
But Jack, if I'm seeing his face, it's gotta be...
Groucho Signs
Marx Signs
Marxigns
... or something like that!
Personally, I like "Outside the Lines" since it has an edgy feel to it, although if Todd's name is pretty well known in the area, using his name in there somewhere makes sense.
-------------------- David Harding A Sign of Excellence Carrollton, TX Posts: 5084 | From: Carrollton, TX, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
I like "Outside the Lines" like David because it is edgy, but I agree with Todd that most people would not know what it related to.
I'd say Alicia's is a winner! That was good!
I think there is a grey area based on your business size and the products, and services you offer.
For example business like Dan's would drop if it was named Signs Now or something other than what his specialty and product line is.
My own business name gets me work from people drawn to art (Art & Sign) but it's not the name in my case as much as my interaction and the relationship created.
Nothing negative intended at Dan or anyone that has a business named Signs Now.
[ September 17, 2009, 11:43 AM: Message edited by: Bruce Brickman ]
posted
Changing the name can be done... publicize the hell out of it. Send postcards to all your customers (the ones you want to keep) to announce the change. You may be surprised how many of them call because they needed to order something & your card spurred their memory. Jon's idea of creating another division holds merit too.
As far as the name registration... that is going to vary state to state. In PA, incorporating gives you exclusive use but fictitious name registration does not. However if you're unincorporated and you do NOT register the fictitous name, you can't use the court system because the business isn't recognized as an entity. I'd poke around your state's website looking for corporate stuff, or "doing business in" links for basic questions.
-------------------- Chris Welker Wildfire Signs Indiana, Pa Posts: 4254 | From: Indiana, PA | Registered: Mar 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
David, I like you for some reason, I just can't figger' out why.
-------------------- Jack Wills Studio Design Works 1465 E.Hidalgo Circle Nye Beach / Newport, OR Posts: 2914 | From: Rocklin, CA. USA | Registered: Dec 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
LOL - clever Mr. Picket...I like that! And you too Dave!
Wow! I got on this morning and wasn't expecting such an overwhelming response.
This is terrific information! I appreciate all the insights and replies...now i've got some thinkin' to do.
I did think about just adding 'signs' to the end of my current biz name, as someone suggested.... but thought that might be too long to say, etc... what do you people think?
Jon - tell me more about Google voice... I haven't heard about that.
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Outside the Lines Signs is too many syllables IMO.
I'm not sure using your name for the company name is a great idea. I think it makes people think that if you aren't the one they are dealing with exclusively they aren't going to receive the same quality and service. Plus it lets all the salesmen know who to ask for when they call.
I like the idea of building the reputation that "Outside the Lines" builds high quality signs, not just Todd Gill.
H@ll, just go with Groucho Signs. . .
-------------------- Dan Beach Cylinder 9 Designs 1650 Glassboro Rd Sewell, NJ 08080 Posts: 625 | From: South Jersey | Registered: Sep 2008
| IP: Logged |
posted
Todd, in Michigan, you have to register a business name with the courthouse in your county on a certificate for doing business under an assumed name. I believe you can have an identical name within the state, but I think not within the same county.
Not trying to hijack Todds post, but I've been contemplating the same thing. SherWood Sign was derived from Sher-Wood Products which was born when I was doing custom woodworking and an occasional sign. Well I morphed into a sign company and do just a little woodworking now, but when I started making signs I was mostly using redwood for hand router carved signs and sandblasted signs, and MDO for 2D signs so I was still using a lot of wood so I felt the name was still a decent fit. Most people I talked to thought that Sher-Wood Products was familiar enough to keep the name so I ended up with SherWood Sign & Graphic Design.
But I am tired of being called Mr. Sherwood, and we use very little wood in our signs anymore so I've been wondering if I should do the same as Todd and come up with a different name before I get the new website built and my new sign for the highway.
-------------------- Dave Sherby "Sandman" SherWood Sign & Graphic Design Crystal Falls, MI 49920 906-875-6201 sherwoodsign@sbcglobal.net Posts: 5396 | From: Crystal Falls, MI USA | Registered: Apr 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
Dave - something about "Sherwood" elicits a visual image of handcrafted and quality to me... my personal opinion. I like the current name...but I can see how people might assume you're Mr. Sherwood...lol.
Thanks for the info...
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Back around 1985, when we first started out, I toyed around with the name "Woodesigns". I was only making stuff out of wood then, and thought it fit. Little did I know that we would end up making signs out of foams, plastics, metals, stone...and using computers, vinyl, gold leaf and a CNC router. When we began landing some serious jobs and decided to go full time with it, my parents wanted me to put the family name into my business. So, to honour my parents, I had to come up with a name to go with "Webb". There was this crazy MDO coating guru in the SignCraft magazine who used "studio" with his. I thought that was pretty cool so I used it for over thirteen years. This year, I changed it to "Webb Signworks" and I think that encompasses more of what we do. But my new business sign, will simply say "SignWorks".
Good luck with it, Todd.
[ September 17, 2009, 03:07 PM: Message edited by: Wayne Webb ]
-------------------- Wayne Webb Webb Signworks Chipley, FL 850.638.9329 wayne@webbsignworks.com Posts: 7403 | From: Chipley,Florida,United States | Registered: Oct 1999
| IP: Logged |
posted
How about Dollar Signs for a name. Isn't that how much they cost these days! You could put it on the business cards and web site like this '$$ Signs'
-------------------- Chuck Churchill, It's A Good Sign Inc. 3245 Harvester Rd, U-12 Burlington, Ont. Phone: 905-681-8775 Fax: 905-681-8945 Posts: 633 | From: Burlington, Ontario, Canada | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
The only problem I would see in naming a business after yourself, is in the future if you ever want to sell. You are now the commodity and not the business.
-------------------- Tracie Johnson Signovations Ventura, California Posts: 444 | From: Ventura, California | Registered: Nov 2005
| IP: Logged |
posted
About 10 years ago I changed from Chuck Peterson Signs to Chuck Peterson Graphics because people were bringing me designs they had done by someone else. They didn't think to come to me first. They didn't think I could design and make a sign. Also I wanted to promote more than just signs. In hindsight I'm not sure it was the best move. Now they don't lnow what I design unless they already know me. I don't care too much any more but if I were to start over in a sign and graphic design business and wanted to grow as big as possible I think I would call it something other than my name.
-------------------- Chuck Peterson Designs San Diego, CA Posts: 1050 | From: San Diego, CA USA | Registered: Nov 1998
| IP: Logged |
posted
Still spun in oblivion maybe, but I got to thinking about the power of suggestion, and I came up with this beauty: Buy Signs From Todd. After all, it would put you under "B" in the alphabetical listings.
-------------------- James Donahue Donahue Sign Arts 1851 E. Union Valley Rd. Seymour TN. (865) 577-3365 brushman@nxs.net
Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what's for lunch, Benjamin Franklin Posts: 2057 | From: 1033 W. Union Valley Rd. | Registered: Feb 2003
| IP: Logged |
posted
Todd, these are all great suggestions. My opinion is that you need to make some plans and decisions before you decide on a name. Think of what you want to specialize in, what will separate you from the competition. This is the greatest delima of the franchise companies today. They are all cookie cutter operations, no skilled staff, all the same equipment (which is all they can sell) and none of them does anything that the others don't do.
Try to figure out what you like to do, or what brings you the most profit and develop a name around that. Then market the heck out of it!
I helped a friend get a small sign business off the ground a few years ago and we decided to focus on the fact that we had a lot of experience racked up in the few people involved. We thought our layouts would look better than the franchise competition out there and our knowledge of hardware, structures and installation techniques would set us apart from the others. After much wrestling and contemplating, we decided on the name "Creative Sign Solutions" with the tag line "Experience, the Difference". I thought it was great, but there was a falling out and I don't know if he is still even using the name.
Figuring out where you want this business to go, and end up is vital to the process. As someone stated above, using your name might be the right answer, but if you branch out to the Internet or want to sell the business someday that will detract from the value of the business.
Good luck and happy hunting!
-------------------- Rick Heller Ohio Technical College 1374 E. 51st Street Cleveland, OH 44103 IOAFS Posts: 210 | From: Cleveland, OH | Registered: Nov 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
Rusty! Ok, sucka.... I owe ya one! But, maybe there's brilliance in that idea...because the numbers are massive now..and growing every day.. ..so that would be a great market!!
Thanks Richard! Taking all this into consideration. While there are many better, I think my skills are in the design area - and I see a LOT of bad design out there...so I need to think this through....maybe capitalize on that?
-------------------- Todd Gill Outside The Lines Potterville, MI Posts: 7792 | From: Potterville, MI | Registered: Dec 2001
| IP: Logged |
posted
I've seen a bunch of changes with our business over the years from signs in the beginning, specializing in race cars for a number of years, big rig graphics, pinstriping and on and on. I've changed hats more times than the winner of the Daytona 500 in victory lane.
The name of the company for years was George Perkins Signs and Graphics. When we went online with a web site we changed to Perkins Artworks...it's all encompasing and I get to keep one hat on all the time.
-------------------- George Perkins Millington,TN. goatwell@bigriver.net
"I started out with nothing and still have most of it left"
![[Cool]](cool.gif)
![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
![[Rolling On The Floor]](graemlins/rolf.gif)
![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
And you too Dave!
Printer-friendly view of this topic