posted
Just got back from the paint store were I was told as of Jan. 5 there will be no more oil based paints. The dealer wasn't sure of all the details. He says it's from PA north. He said some stores and manufactures have stock piled some paints, so it won't be immediate. Some oil based paint formulas will be changed and some will only be sold in quarts, but most will not be sold after supplies run out. Anybody else heard anything or in an area that has already done this? Anybody from One Shot have anymore info?
-------------------- Eric PA Posts: 149 | From: Intercourse, PA | Registered: Jun 2004
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I was at the One Shot plant in July and they didn't say anything about it. What is the paint store and how soon before this person working was to go on a vacation?
-------------------- Mike Meyer Sign Painter 189 1st Ave n P.O. Box 3 Mazeppa, Mn 55956
We are not selling, we are staying here in Mazeppa....we cannot re-create what we have here....not in another lifetime! SO Here we are!!!!!!!
posted
It wasn't One Shot specifically, but since it's an oil based paint I was wondering. It was a Ben Moore dealer, but he said it included most of what they carry Sikkens, Zinnser etc..
-------------------- Eric PA Posts: 149 | From: Intercourse, PA | Registered: Jun 2004
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I choose to believe that it means that this one particular company may be discontinuing their line of oil-based paints and is not reflective of the oil-based paint industry as a whole.
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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I just got ogg the phone with B.M. and it is affecting 6 north eastern states and products will not be available after Jan 2005. It has to do with the amount of VOC in the paint and is regulated basically by the EPA. I asked about bringing the product in from other states that are not effected and they said it would basically be illegal.
posted
Not from the way he told me it sounded at least state wide if not multiple states. Like I said they carry multiple brands and all of them were affected. I don't want to argue since I don't know the details I was just wondering if anyone else had heard anything. Maybe check the next time your at a paint store to see what they have to say. This wasn't a new guy at the store, he's been there as long as I can remember.
-------------------- Eric PA Posts: 149 | From: Intercourse, PA | Registered: Jun 2004
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Eric, I was told this by a Sherwin-Williams dealer awhile back and I thought it was crazy. But what you say seems to verify it, at least here in PA. The S-W guy said that S-W provides paints for WalMart and that they just bought out Duron so there goes the neighborhood. How does this affect automotive painters?
-------------------- Gene Golden Gettysburg Signs Gettysburg PA 17325 717-334-0200 genegolden@gettysburgsigns.com
"Art is knowing when to stop." Posts: 1578 | From: Gettysburg, PA | Registered: Jun 2003
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You oughta try that house paint bob. It works better than one shot. And I cant find anywhere on the Porter brand can I use, the words "House Paint". Says it works on wood , metal, concrete, etc.
[ September 24, 2004, 02:50 PM: Message edited by: John Deaton III ]
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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Okay, so we can't buy the paints at Sherwin-Williams anymore, come Jan. 2005. How about the thinners and cleaners? Aren't these also contributing to the VOC's? What happens then?
-------------------- Gene Golden Gettysburg Signs Gettysburg PA 17325 717-334-0200 genegolden@gettysburgsigns.com
"Art is knowing when to stop." Posts: 1578 | From: Gettysburg, PA | Registered: Jun 2003
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Bob we use the industrial urethane enamel from Ben Moore not the house paints. I really don't get the house paint is for house thing. People use automotive paints on signs is that not OK. Paint dosen't know if it's on a sign or siding. I agree One Shot has advantages for workability and leveling, but thats about it.We still use alot of One Shot But when we need a custom colors we get it mixed. I don't think it holds up any better (worse actually) and it's a very limited palatte.
-------------------- Eric PA Posts: 149 | From: Intercourse, PA | Registered: Jun 2004
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posted
Elsewhere on this BB is a thread about how weird Callyfornians are . . . Seconded ONLY by Pennsylvania!
Nothing there would surprise me . . I'm a Street Rodder and loosely follow the state laws pertaining to them around the country (in case I travel through their state in the future, . . . or not) and their Automobile Safety and Modification laws make me wonder if they're even on the same planet.
Soooooo, as for VOC levels in paints sold there, who knows, apparently this is a case of "States Rights run Amok"!
posted
I was thinking of going to latex anyway. Cuz as far I know, while we are allowed to BUY enamel paints, we are NOT allowed to throw it away--not even licensed sign contractors with dumpster service (I'm sure they do, tho). I called the dumpster company and was told that paint (and even used paint cans!) were not allowed; that I'd have to wait for some special "amnesty" event that occurs ever so often. I got like 50 half-used gallons of paint in my shed. I'm not entirely sure that latex wasn't affected by the stupid rule, too.
I sometimes consider that there ought to be an organized sign industry lobby for sanity (like 4 x 8's could be installed without having a college degree in General Contracting).
-------------------- William Bass wjb71@bellsouth.net Northwest Florida Posts: 636 | From: Pensacola, FL | Registered: Aug 2004
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Just a thought though John, if Benjamin Moore lasts 25 years then why do people still vinyl side thier houses and why do people paint thier houses every other year? DOH~
Hey look, Oil base paints have been very good to me, they work and they last, now water based paints on the other hand have let me down on many Occasions.
Oh just another thought if the VOC's are really an issue even in the industrial world will that mean cars will now be painted with water based paints?
And why does the EPA not want us yankees to use oil based paints but you rebels can still burn yer trash out in yer back yard
And why can't californians weed by hand in the fields?
Oh and what about vinyl and latex adhesion issues?
And by golly why do things have to change again Ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!
[ September 24, 2004, 05:48 PM: Message edited by: Bob Rochon ]
-------------------- Bob Rochon Creative Signworks Millbury, MA 508-865-7330
"Life is Like an Echo, what you put out, comes back to you." Posts: 5149 | From: Millbury, Mass. U.S. | Registered: Nov 1998
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Well, if it is happening on the east coast, I'm sure the west coast will be next. We used to use only one-shot and Matthews but recently have been using BM oils. I have tried the latex but vinyl will not stick to it.
So...are there other options out there? I'm already feeling like we had better be prepared.
-------------------- Roday Signage 37224 Military Rd. S. Auburn, WA 98002 daye@roday.com Posts: 20 | From: Auburn, Washington | Registered: May 2003
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posted
Think of it this way, we won't have to have water based vs oil based arguments anymore...Now if only California falls into the Pacific Ocean, we can get rid of the freaks, Immagrants and the gas hoggin SUV's....
[ September 24, 2004, 07:00 PM: Message edited by: Rick Chavez ]
-------------------- Rick Chavez Hemet, CA Posts: 1538 | From: Hemet,CA U.S.A. | Registered: Jun 2001
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Rove, The latex should be banned because of the Latex Intolerant people and I for one wouldn't use Milk Paint because I'm Lactose Intolerant. Actually, I'm basically intolerant, period.
Rick, We wouldn't allow CA to fall into the ocean, think of all THAT pollution. Too much "fertilizer".
[ September 25, 2004, 08:55 AM: Message edited by: Gene Golden ]
-------------------- Gene Golden Gettysburg Signs Gettysburg PA 17325 717-334-0200 genegolden@gettysburgsigns.com
"Art is knowing when to stop." Posts: 1578 | From: Gettysburg, PA | Registered: Jun 2003
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If enough of us stand up and pitch a fit, plead latex-intolerance and create a class action suit for the industry, could we get them to end the proposed madness?
If they can "save-the-whales", "save-the-spotted-owl", "save-the-gas" and "save-the-homeless" . . . . can we not save-the-oil-paint?
Where are our rights? Where is OUR freedom of choice??
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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You've implied hay-bale burning.... No no . . we must burn something relative to the oppression . . . . yet, nothing that would add to or aggrevate the ozone depletion or global warming. It has to be something that will illustrate our demands perfectly and will produce a full million-man march on the EPA. . . . .like burn a 30x100 ft banner lettered only "E P A" with latex or somethin' . . ..... I'm sorry. Am I thinkin' too small?
. . . .I'm sure you creative heads can think of something. The riot-inciter is exhausted. . . . . all this slow-motion, post-to-post chat
PS: OK, there are not a million sign painters?? But there are millions of people who use oil-paints. And just think, WHERE would we be today without the pioneers of oil-paints . . like DeVinci, Monet, Chagall, etc. Logos like Sherwin Williams "Paint the World" will become a joke . . .
Benjamin Moore is dropping the High Gloss Alkyd Impervo paints. The local hardware store has already pulled the line from the shelves, but only that line. There are still many other oil based paints available by BM and other manufacturers.
The real trick is to not become dependant on one brand or line of paint, but find compatible paint alternatives. Ace, True Value and others carry their own label on paints....many are oil based and make a good substitute for the BM Impervo paints..
Hope this helps... Rapid
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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Sheila, You know how it works, just IMPLY that there will be a million painter march. Call it that, set a date in Washington for the march (make it a nice month, maybe while the cherry trees are blossoming), and 50 of us will show up. We will pour latex paint onto an intolerant person (refer to photo of flaming monk for non-violent protests). The writhing of this sacrificial person (maybe we need a Latex Intolerant lamb?),should make all of the politicians rethink this. WAIT A MINUTE! That's it... tell the politicos that we can no longer produce their CAMPAIGN SIGNS. That's the way to get this silliness stopped!!!
-------------------- Gene Golden Gettysburg Signs Gettysburg PA 17325 717-334-0200 genegolden@gettysburgsigns.com
"Art is knowing when to stop." Posts: 1578 | From: Gettysburg, PA | Registered: Jun 2003
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Because Bob, most people go to wal mart to get their paint for their houses. 8.99 a gallon and guaranteed for two days. duh. Anyway, if you use the right latex paint, high quality acrylic, they wont fade,and as of yet I have had no vinyl adhesion problems. Oils fade and chalk too easily for me. I used one shot for many years but after removing the lead, the quality went down. I still use them for lettering and such, but no backgrounds. They wont last as long as acrylic. Just my opinion though.
[ September 25, 2004, 11:56 AM: Message edited by: John Deaton III ]
-------------------- Maker of fine signs and other creative stuff. Located at 109 N. Cumberland ave. Harlan, Ky. 40831 606-837-0242 Posts: 4172 | From: Ages-Brookside, Ky. Up the Holler... | Registered: Jul 1999
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I think that gene hit the nail on the Proverbial head. Tell the politicians that we cannot make anymore campaign signs and banners and theyll have a schitt fit and veto anything that makes the use of these so-called bad VOC's illegal.
Note: I realize any contact with virtually anything(including somone else) is bad for our health, but hey cant I have my one minute of glory?
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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Didn't the govt. allow for a variance for artists pigments when they outlawed lead in paint a few years back? Seems they would do the same for us as I would like to think we are just that,....artists
-------------------- fly low...timi/NC is, Tim Barrow Barrow Art Signs Winston-Salem,NC Posts: 2224 | From: Winston-Salem,NC,USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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posted
Million Painter March!! And no more Political Signs !!!
-------------------- Signs by Alicia Jennings (Mudflap Girl) Tacoma, WA Since 1987 Have Lipstick, will travel. Posts: 3814 | From: Tacoma, WA. U.S.A. | Registered: Dec 1999
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One Shot paints were given a 50 year grandfather clause as an "industry specific material" but a court ruling sometime later negated it. Seems that some kids were using signs as lollypops or something stupid like that.
Sheila
Young Obi Wanna Letter knows the ways of the force, but has only been taught by his mentor, Qui Gone Fising, who has now retired from the Jedi council and its happily living on Malibu Beach carving chess pieces for sale on Ebay. Obi must now strike out on his own in the sign biz, only to find out that everything he is painting with and on has been changed by the evil Sith lord..Epee-ay. As the young painter finally meets Epee-ay in battle, the dark lord reveals he is Obi's "BIG BROTHER" and has been watching over his safety all along.
I could take off on this, but...let's be realistic. Marching on Washington against a department of government making changes in paint for health and safety concerns...well...don't doubt you'll have just as many people marching against you.
Personally, I'd rather not have hazadous material concerns at all, and if it means keeping up with the changes, doing a litle R&D in the shop and rethinking things...cest la vie.
Some things coming up in the not too distant future...and the questions they raise. Impact resistant cars with plastic bodies that are colored. So much for touch ups at the body shop. How do you keep the static out of it when you're lettering it? Will there be any?
Water based clear coats for automotive finishes. Too many questions to list here.
Silicone additives for reducing fisheyes in equipment/automotive paints and clearcoatings. Will paint stick to it?
Things change. Changing with it is easier than fighting city hall sometimes. Rapid
PS: Forget the "NO Political Signs" approcah....there's plenty of vinyl shops out there who'll knock them out for a favor later. Why not? They do race cars for free...
[ September 26, 2004, 08:47 AM: Message edited by: Ray Rheaume ]
-------------------- Ray Rheaume Rapidfire Design 543 Brushwood Road North Haverhill, NH 03774 rapidfiredesign@hotmail.com 603-787-6803
I like my paint shaken, not stirred. Posts: 5648 | From: North Haverhill, New Hampshire | Registered: Apr 2003
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ACK!! Don't listen to him you people!! He's one of them!! An ecology-rights wacko if there ever was one.
(lol)
I should've know Ray, when your movie-lines mentioned nothing about saving the paint. And the fact that like so many of us who just missed 'em, you're curiously trapped in the 60's.
LOL Ray, you know I'm jes' pickin'.
You bring up more new futuristic things that are starting to worry me too.
I DON'T NEED THIS!!!
~Vehicles made of coloured plastic bodies????? Are they gonna be enamel, or even vinyl receptive?? If not, they will surely be "impact" reisitant, in more ways than one.(But I see a bright side: NO more mags )
~ Imron paint a'reddy has silicon in it or as the Dupont people told me "plasticisers"... whatever that is, lettering enamel will NOT stick to it without an adhesion promoter...another serious chem. paint that they will find a way to make extinct too because it works.
I think movies ARE the way to go. They seem to affect change & influence better than protests. Your new movie will have to be totally about what all the letterheads did after real paint materials became extinct. The Mad-Max character will be the Letterheads hero because he has a huge cache` full of the real One-shot & other banned materials. The regular people will all be amazed at the vibrant, shiney, things all the Letterheads paint until it's discovered they have this paint, then the war is on and "Mad-Max" changes the course of history by bringin back what shudd'a never been taken.
But I digress . . .
Water-based clear??? Ashes-to-ashes-dust-to-dust. How strong & long-lasting could a water based clear be???
-------------------- Signs Sweet Home Alabama
oneshot on chat
"Look like a girl, act like a lady, think like a man, work like a dog" Posts: 5758 | From: "Sweet Home" Alabama | Registered: Mar 2003
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Hahahaa, I'm now picturing the march on Washington. A million chanting sign people carrying empty sticks to protest not being able to paint signs.
-------------------- Compulsive, Neurotic, Anti-social and Paranoid ... but basically Happy Posts: 2677 | From: Rochester, NY, USA | Registered: Nov 1998
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I believe Chrysler has been using water based paints or at least testing them for the past 5 years. I really dont have much information on that But I did hear it was in testing stages, maybe someone else has more info.
Face it Ray is right even if it does hurt to admit it,.. history tells us that we are going to have to change with the times and keep up with technology, and the manufacturers of the things we use also will have to keep up with these evil changes being forced upon us by the people we vote for.
I thought I had rights until one day they created the EPA. Look at cars and other items we live with these days, its all regulated by our govt. Why? you ask, because it puts money in politicians pockets thats why.
Check out the new automotive emissions laws California just passed. Get ready people, catalytic converters on Motorcycles. Lawn mowers, snow blowers, chain saws etc. cant be far behind.
Face it, the tree huggers are winning. But if the final outcome is a better life for everyone I know, maybe change isnt such a bad thing afterall.
OK time for me to step down from my proverbial soapbox.
"Gimme lead or gimme death!"
-------------------- Harris Kohen K-Man Pinstriping and Graphix Trenton, NJ "Showing the world that even I can strategically place the pigment where its got to go." Posts: 1739 | From: Trenton, NJ, USA | Registered: Jun 2001
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Okay, so we're using Vinyl to letter everything? Somewhere, somehow, SOMEBODY is using VOC's to produce this stuff. Plastic vehicle skin? VOC's at the factories, yes? Don't tell me that, SOMEWHERE along this production line, there isn't a quantity of bad stuff being used... all in one place no doubt. But that's probably okay if it's in Mexico or China, right? Let's say that CA, PA, WA and MA, or wherever, outlaw Oils. Ray, you know that vinyls will never replace the cost effectiveness of ten thousand lawn signs screenprinted. So here we are in PA, etc., having to circumvent the laws by subcontracting to a state that is not required to comply with a silly law. So our local politicians will effectively be buying contraband items. We can't import Cuban cigars, how can we import signs that would not be allowed in our own states? Of course, you can buy a ratty, smoke billowing car in Nevada and drive it around all over California, as long as it's registered in NV, can't you? So I guess we COULD buy the products elsewhere even though it is contrary to our OWN state's laws. Or, how about buying alcoholic beverages from a neighboring state because the beer is 6.0 instead of 3.5 alch content. If you drink it in your state, is it then illegal? You can't SELL it, but you CAN use it. So we can jump over to MD to buy our paints. If it's not Federally regulated, then MD suppliers should be able to deliver the contraband to us. Yes, NO??? I don't know, but this is tiring.
[ September 26, 2004, 12:11 PM: Message edited by: Gene Golden ]
-------------------- Gene Golden Gettysburg Signs Gettysburg PA 17325 717-334-0200 genegolden@gettysburgsigns.com
"Art is knowing when to stop." Posts: 1578 | From: Gettysburg, PA | Registered: Jun 2003
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